Dude, I get tilted by the sun not shining. Probably need my script refilled, hey?






That's like extra incentive IYAM!

I heard about this debate on the pokercast, and I couldn't decide what side I came down on. It seemed like a douche-y thing in a live tournament, but perfectly reasonable online. I spent some time pondering it and think I figured out why I had this reaction.

In an online tournament, you're actually given a finite time bank, whereas in a live tournament you're just allowed to take the time you need as long as you don't abuse it. Psychologically, we perceive the time bank as an asset - something to be used to help us get as far as we can. But without the time bank in a live tourney we're governed by the social pressures to not be a scumbag. Think how different it would be in a live tourney if you were handed a physical marker that was worth 10 minutes of thinking. I think we'd see a LOT more people using up that time on the bubble just to squeak their way into the money. The presence of a real, finite time bank makes it a question of economics and not ethics (or courtesy).

It reminds me of an anecdote in the book Predictably Irrational: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions. A day care center was having trouble with a few parents who were picking up their kids late. The center tried to solve this by instituting a $5 fee if parents picked up their kids late. Instead of solving the problem, it actually MADE IT WORSE! Parents were suddenly absolved of the guilt and societal pressures to pick up their kids on time, and since $5 seemed like a reasonable fee for picking up their kids late, more and more parents started arriving later and later. This is the same thing. In an online tourney, a time bank is an asset that we're all given at the start along with our pile of chips, and it seems economical and reasonable for us to "cash in" that asset when most advantageous. But without the bank, the dynamics at the table are more social, and the pressures from the other players generally keep us from abusing the time we're given, even though it's (theoretically) much longer than a time bank ever could be.

Just my two cents.

Ask yourself this honestly -
1 - have you [HONESTLY] ever had a problem with pro sports such as football and basketball running out the clock when they were winning?
2 - are you very against people stalling near the bubble in poker tournaments?

REALITY CHECK TIME - if you answered "no" to the first and "yes" to the second, then you are a BIG FAT HYPOCRITE. there is no difference between the two scenarios.

i can't remember ever seeing michael jordan dribbling out the clock at the end of a game and charles oakley yelling at him "come on you douche take a shot"

The only time I find stalling useful is when I need to go to the bathroom.

Even if you are a shorter stack, I think it's in your favor to keep the action at the current level going so you can see more hands during that time, giving you a chance to double up so when the blinds do go up, hopefully it will increase the chance that it won't matter later.

But I don't blame supershort stacks for table railing during the bubble, and stalling when another SS is about to be the BB, so that BB has to pay more.

Anonymity is one of the things that is good for online poker...... but also bad in this regard (along with hit n' runs) b/c live you can berate the player(s) at your table who are stalling, making it uncomfortable to do. Online the chat is shut off (either on the client's end or the user's end) and the embarrassment factor isn't there.

My favorite bubble story however live was during the "Great Minds" PAD where Brandon Adams mentions that during the 2006 USPC, his whole table OPENLY discussed folding every hand to each other until they made the money (he was the only to refuse) during a brutal bubble period. A good idea, if only the nits where smart enough to NOT OPENLY discuss it.

Either way, a nit is a nit and you can't change it, just deal with it.

I heard about this case as well, it happened in Israel if I remember right. Terrific analogy, very relevant. Props.

No hand is worth thousands in equity when you can stall and be guaranteed the money a few hands later. It's really a simple concept...

I'm not one to normally talk bad about people but this bumping your own threads is quite pathetic

and then level the grinders and steal their blinds