the fish will lose incredibly faster to spin and go than it would to an hyper husng

Lol at losing players and self admitted 1 dollar players preaching to SNEs about how many formats they should know and how they should make money. Unbelievable.

Which is... what I said? Regs are good for creating possibility of pretty much any game and stake to be played at any time. That'd probably still be true for almost all formats if you took away 80-90% of regs though. Removing 100% of regs would indeed make it so that this wouldn't be the case anymore. I do find it funny that apparently it's something so obvious to you that it is completely solved that "endless offer for games towards fish" generates more rake for stars than "playerpool getting a lot closer in terms of skill". I'm not even sure the analysers at stars could make an accurate statement about that but to you it's a solved problem clearly. Just halving the spread on the variance on skill of players would make a HUGE amount of money go back and forth more. I lean towards that outweighing the endless offer of games for fish.

Neither of us can prove our claims obviously, however the point still stands that if a massive chunks of all regs were to disapear (80%+), nothing would change for stars. So yeah unless the offer of certain games starts dipping to an all time low to a point where a fish can't play his favorite game anymore and cashes out, regs aren't really important for rake generation. And beyond that point debatebly so.

Does it matter how much I play poker for when I tell you that the earth is round? It is never a bad move to learn more games, ask the draw players, the stud player or the limit hold em players.

I was talking in general terms in response to the argument that if regs are removed the better fish will replace them so it doesn't make any difference.

But the fact that they can win 10k for 10€/$ buy in is what makes them come back.

Like with MTTs only one bink needed to make up for lots of losses.

You can't bink big in HU SNG.

There is no point in arguing with someone who believes this

Maybe those players you call losing or 1$ players understand more, than SNE, that Stars has no obligation towards SNE players in the consistency (my english is bad so maybe not the right word, but i meant that Stars has no obligation to give some regs some assurance that the game they play today will still be played tomorrow - by game i mean format).

Spot on

With the slowdown in the growth in poker, its become a battle between the poker sites and regs to capture the recreational players money.

the introduction of higher rake, lower edge, higher variance games is a victory for the poker sites. The closer they can make the games to casino games the more money the site will make.

In HUSNG's good reg's are either "happy" to or forced to battle other regs as there are not enough recreational players to go around. This is a win for the poker sites as the edge reg vs reg is small, so more money will go in rake than in player winnings/withdrawals compared to reg vs fish.

Even if you have an edge at the Spin n Go's at the start you still need play an insane amount of games to even out the high variance. This pretty much ensures that regs who play these will need to continue play these long after the rec pool has dried up. So you will end up playing other regs who are also playing for the long run.


.

mtt is the best value for a fish money by far , they can play a long time and luck box a huge payday.

with spin and go they can play a short time and will spend much more buy ins for a shot at that huge pay day

With husng they have a far less terrible win rate can still win 10 bi when they luckbox and wont lose their money as fast

spin and go are an equivalent of lottery or scratching ticket for the fish. Now if pokerstars the room that fight for legislation for a game of skill think it s ok. I m hugely disappointed in them

Conclusion to your analysis , the winner is pokerstars while people that actually play poker the most and enjoy it the most are the losers.

3handed hypers with battlenet system are actually nice to play, the payout structure while appealing for pokerstars accountant is disastrous for poker.

When they introduced hypers turbo at first it was disastrous like that with 10BB stacks huge rake , they fixed it and it was ok.

Those spin n go need to change or disappear. The current form is terrible

Do enlighten me oh wise one.
http://i.imgur.com/rWUZpBw.png
http://i.imgur.com/PuP5SUt.png
http://i.imgur.com/wN7NAdp.png
http://i.imgur.com/bsk44po.png

130 or so tables with 1 player waiting at $3/$6. 3 tables with action.

Getting rid of 80-90% of regs would just mean the remaining ones would end up with all the fish' money (minus rake). Offer on stars would still be super viable for almost any format.

you only prove that hucash is an outdated format killed because gameselection is too powerfull in those

Go look at any sng lobby that isn't HU. It's going to be 60-90% regs. You think losing 80% of those players wouldn't be a massive loss of revenue for stars?

I've only mostly played hu so my numbers may be slightly skewed (it was hu cash btw). I don't have a big enough sample to give an accurate view of -say- 6max hypers or something. Yeah you "need" 5 regs for 1 fish (or at least that's the most likely situation to happen I reckon). The fact that 5 regs can take 1 fish together though is offset by the fact that multitabling 6max is a lot easier than heads-up. As long as there are enough regs that want to multitable a 5vs1 situation it's enough. Let's say 8 minutes avg games and regs are willing to multitable 8 at a time. That means just 5 regs online can take 1 fish per minute on average without fish having to "wait" for a game to fill up 4vs2 or whatever.
Maybe 80% is too much for other formats, possibly. Even if the bar for other formats is lower, just that other games like hu cash can lose 95% of the regs easily makes up for that when you average things out in the end. Same with hu sng's. This was a post from last week that I found quite hilarious:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...stcount=121996

So yeah I keep by it. Losing 80% of regs overall/on average would barely be noticeable. The remaining regs would probably fill gaps in certain games that are now spicier or just play more because they now have the option to, but in terms of rake there will unlikely be a big difference.

but the way things are going, you will just be donating your money to pokerstars.

would you honestly be happy to log on and play for fun if in the long run everyone lost? like in roulette? if recs and people supporting stars ITT are happy for that, then clearly stars will end up as a lotto site.

Just to be clear, if me among others were meant with that, I did not say that I endorse all of this, and I can clearly understand why this sucks for regs and particularly high volume players. Its just that IMO some do/did overestimate their entitlements and importance to the site quite significantly. I also think its quite possible that this format is no good for the game in the long run but that remains to be seen.
After all PS was going down that path for quite a while: Hypers, mobile client, AI shootout bonuses etc.
All designed for a quick gamble for recs.

this
and this

If you are a fish just move to Bovada. Bovada is much better than Stars now. Anonymous tables, no HUDS or tracking software, 4 table cap. They are making all the correct changes that are good for the players and protect poker while Stars turns into a casino.

There is a reason Bovada is the #2 site now. Only problem is games on Stars are still softer but at least the poker is real.

Can someone explain how these games won't devolve into a haven for bots?

3 handed hyper-turbos are just nash charts, right?

Recs are far worse playing against an armada of GTO bots, than trying their luck vs regs in cash or sng.

I'd say spin and goes are the best "value" for money given your premise as I can spend 8 hours on Pokerstars to win 120$ on some tournaments, or can spend 4 minutes winning 15000$. for 60$ For 55$ you can spend 5 hours to make 40$. Time is money.

Any winning players who welcome this btw?

Seems to me that only people who are not making money welcome these games in their current form. And you should be worried because if the better players dont like these, others have no chance in hell.
Even if the better regs were to leave, new regs would emerge and they would get killed eventually Amaya will suck all the money out in form rake in course of few years. Eventually even fish will leave because no money in poker.

scratch tickets imo. 10 seconds win millions.

Nash dont start b4 8-12 bb es.. and sometimes its not even optimal.

But collusion risk is high in this format anyway, people will team up and steal your money guys. 2 v 1, goodbye jackpots.