In fairness, online players were really (really) terrible when BF happened, and a lot of the more serious ones moved away from the US. When the game becomes unbeatable online because we get too close to a readily available solution, live games will become significantly worse, not only because of the influx of actually good online players who can't simply access softer games by moving abroad, but also because it'll be relatively easy to look up the optimal play in each spot and you'll get some idiot kid in a hoodie showing all the fish why their play was bad on his app which has cloud access to the solution.

Fortunately, you can't use your phone when you are in a hand when playing live.

lol wrong. this is the same idiocy we heard in 1000's of posts after black friday. i was the only one saying online players "flooding" the casino would have no effect. I was 100% correct, of course, like always.

Live poker is SLOW, you cant play 10 fast tables of 200nl and make a living you have to play one slow ass table of 2000nl. its a completely different animal strategy and bankroll wise. The number of online "ballers" who have transitioned successfully to live poker and lasted from black friday until today is microscopic. the games will always be good.

But you can use it between hands and after you've folded, plus the issue is more that live players will become much, much better on average. $1/$2 will never be that tough because it's basically impossible to sustain a living on, but higher than that will dry up very quickly, and lots of lollivepros will have to find a real job (as well as lots of online pros).

How many live regs from Black Friday still win today?

established pros? guys/girls w/ 5 years as a live pro when BF hit? basically all of them still win in los angeles (the poker capitol of the world). Some winners have left poker because the games have gotten smaller. At the height of the boom there was tons of loose money in the economy, 2000nl tables were filled with dudes flipping houses, that easy money is gone. Staying a pro poker player through the entire economic collapse prob wasnt the greatest financial decision for a smart person, there had to be lifestyle reasons to stay in poker. Black friday caused no established live mid/hi winners to leave poker, the games were already getting dry by then due MOSTLY to the great recession (tournament culture contributed heavily and training sites to a small degree in NLH only).

This is the moronic attitude that causes the game to die. People who cant see further ahead than the tip of their nose.

Things that never happened.

I'd rather be twenty-one and broke tbh lol.

Eh, id say most of those guys arent very good anyway. You used to be able to 24 table, breakeven, and do well. Not the case anymore. If your playing midstakes online and beating it for a decent winrate, however, then yea you are better than 99.99% of live 5/10 players.
I know, Ive played with them It really is a different animal though and some players cant adjust to live games, limon does make good points there.

Your right though about the games at the bike, they look awesome!

So most/all the guys who were on HSP still win? I really, really doubt it.

wtf are you talking about? lol.

Name ONE 24-tabling 100 player who couldn't beat 5/10 live.

100NL on Stars is probably on par with a typical 5/10 live game. If you can succeed while playing 24 of them simultaneously, then you could comfortably beat the live game when the amount of decisions you have to make each hour are cut by approx 97.5% (1/40th of the volume.)

everyone constantly confuses beating a live game with making a living at it. after a few months of playing much bigger and much slower in a casino most fold even if they can beat the game for a small amount for a short stint. In online poker you can take a tiny winrate and multiply it across many tables, you cant do that live. you must have a giant winrate at one table. beating the game is a waste of time, you must crush the game, AND FIND AND PLAY IN CRUSHABLE GAMES, this requires a completely different skillset.

If you were already a nosebleed type player online transitioning to the same games live might not be a problem i have no clue. But i multi-tabled online for years and it has very little to do with crushing/surviving the live game at the mid/hi level.

What about MTTs? What makes them so different that basically all the decent live (televised) MTT regs either started out or play online?

wtf are you talking about (again)? Apples meet oranges! lol. the skillset and dynamic of a tournament (especially endgame/bubble) is completely different from a cash game but exactly like a live tourney. online tournaments are more like live you cant multitable within the same tourney and dynamics and skills transfer easily.

errrrr, donkaments bro. but how much did they lose? oh do tell me who the decent ones are for this week, im all ears...

there's basically no such thing as a live donkament pro. So of course they have to travel/have foreign address/play online tourneys to survive. Why wouldnt you play donkaments online if thats what you are into? the skills transfer easily.

here, ill blow your mind, live cash pros whove been around for years dont care much about tourneys. they might play the main at their local casino series or one wsop event but even that would be a stretch.

its not like two live donks are gonna bet all comers a million they'll get a bracelet at the wsop....orrrrrr....uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Multitabling a bunch of 1-2 tables online is very poor practice and wont prepare you much (psychologically, skills or bankroll wise) for playing one table of 10-20nl live as a full time career. playing a bunch of 1k tournaments online IS good practice for playing a 1k tournament live. DUCY?

(MODS! this is a great convo but move it to one of the "pokerisdead/liveVonline" threads as it has nothing to do with this thread. IM NOT DERAILING!!)

I'm not sure if Dankness plays online anymore, but on ChicagoJoey's podcast he said he grinds 2/5 at the Borgata. Sounds like 5/10 at the Borgata is a tough game if Dankness finds 2/5 more profitable.

I know you specifically said name a 24 tabling 100NL player, but I think this comparison is still noteworthy.

Well yeah, that's why I said I play live at my local Casino and Vegas.

By succeed, do you mean break-even rakeback players?

Have you seen the face of a multi tabling 100nl online player in a live 10-20 uncapped game when someone shoves their 5k stack into them? I have, it's kinda funny. I'm sure there a some low stakes online players that could crush 5-10 live, but I doubt it's that many. Besides they can make more money on stars than playing at The Bellagio so most of them can't be bothered playing live.

Yeah I agree we are derailing the thread.

My apologies Ike.

It's an actual fact you know that 100NL live games play out the same as 2NL online games. Jus sayin

if i read limons recent posts i seriously wonder how much meth the guy did since new year...

You win the thread sir (so far)!

So many of you clowns running around these boards, full of fake and flake. It is hilarious to read some of the pathetic you clowns drum up in defense of one another. To protect the little bit of something you have in this world. Which you cant angle forever, so have fun in the real world Ike. They should've sent this guy and a bunch others alike packin a LONG time ago.

This guy gets it right here though, and LOL at the numerous groupies and fan boys slurpin this hobbits *hit in the thread. You bunch of clowns are something else!

(Only got to the 10th page so far and saw this... And FINALLY someone gets it, now onto the next ~25 pages, so bbiab)

I don't agree with that.

When I play live the minimum pre-flop raise that I see is 5x... you just don't see that stuff online.

@ 1/2 the standard opening is to $12 and coupled with the rake and jackpots, it makes it super high variance and impossible to win in any sort of long run sense.

Online poker hasn't developed, its regressed due to poor administration, government suppression, and greedy poker rooms. Its easily reversible. Make online poker 100% legal, open a site where every play is limited to 1 table, make the rake reasonable, and watch the people flood in. Whether those things will come to pass is up for debate, but its certainly possible.

Suggesting that people like you drive away recreational players because you are "too good" is not only insulting and idiotic, it belies your complete misunderstanding of the problem. There are many people, some of them very good poker players, who actually enjoy playing poker. They enjoy sitting with real live people who don't time out on every decision while they struggle to mass-fold on the other 23 tables they are on. They enjoy playing with people who actually banter back and forth, and are actually present and watching the screen while they play, rather then trying to fold as many possible hands per hour to earn points for a rakeback bonus. Its simply not fun to sit there for 6 minutes while 70% of the table times out every hand in silence. It has absolutely nothing to do with how "good" these players are.

[ ] impossible to win in teh longrun

Looooool

If you can make a good living in at 1st world country grinding 1/2 live is another story. You definitely can easily make your 3k/m which should def pay your bills though