Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > General Poker Discussion > News, Views, and Gossip

Notices

News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-02-2012, 07:42 PM   #376
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Posts: 9,626
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by sajeffe View Post
Nathan Vardi: There does not appear to be a deal in place between Ray Bitar and the feds on criminal charges. He faces up to 145 yrs.
lololol, there's no way he came to the US without something in place. That would make literally no sense.
Go Get It is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:43 PM   #377
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Dudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: pm karak w/ ffb questions
Posts: 45,635
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Let's not forget France granting them a license too. Sure, it's expected that offshore regulations are all for show, but I'd be royally pissed if I paid the higher rake on .fr and got just as screwed as everyone else
Dudd is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:44 PM   #378
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 992
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggger5x View Post
I am having a hard time seeing why Bitar is handing himself in given the damning counts against him.
Nathan Vardi is reporting (on twitter) that Bitar pleaded not guilty, to be expected, surely.

Nevertheless, I wonder if the DOJ said no settlement deals unless he turns himself in, end of discussion. Seems likely that is what happened here, imo. That's why FT lawyer is saying he did this to get players their money back, and DOJ is saying, don't let him out on bail, he had no idea what he had coming with this sealed indictment and 100+ years in jail.

So maybe Bitar did do the noble thing in the end (after doing the greediest stuff ever for four + years)
bizzle03 is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:47 PM   #379
veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2,904
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle03 View Post
Agreed. Regulation would have been better than forcing them into the dark. But hindsight is 20/20.

I'm just saying that it is better that someone who is willing to do the things that Bitar was willing to do is not in charge of a company overseeing $350 million + of other people's money anymore. He was exposed. Nobody forced him to do anything he did. Greed was the motive behind his actions.

Don't forget that they were licensed, they were supposed to have all the money on hand, yet this happened anyway. It could have happened here, too. I don't think Alderney should escape our scrutiny. Personally, if I were ROW, I would not put any money on a site licensed by them ever again.
MF global where U.S regulated, but still bet on finacal markets with customer money that was meant to be segregated.
andyg2001 is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:48 PM   #380
grinder
 
A MTT PRO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Going deep and running good
Posts: 504
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

THE PART OF THE PRESS RELEASE THAT IS PARTICULARLY DISTURBING:

"The indictment alledges how Bitar bluffed his player-customers and fixed the game against them as part of an international ponzi scheme that left players empty-handed."


I wonder what proof they have games were rigged????
A MTT PRO is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:49 PM   #381
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Kirbynator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 37,541
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

theres no proof of any rig becasue there wasnt any, its just their humourous way to say they ****ed players over by not segragating funds
Kirbynator is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:50 PM   #382
old hand
 
28renton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: @HeroCallPoker
Posts: 1,542
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by A MTT PRO View Post
THE PART OF THE PRESS RELEASE THAT IS PARTICULARLY DISTURBING:

"The indictment alledges how Bitar bluffed his player-customers and fixed the game against them as part of an international ponzi scheme that left players empty-handed."


I wonder what proof they have games were rigged????
He was just using a metaphor for Bitar stealing player money for himself and other owners/shareholders. He wasn't saying FTP rigged the deck.
28renton is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:50 PM   #383
John Connor of poker
 
sluggger5x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Fight for Poker Rights Action Thred
Posts: 5,590
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle03 View Post
Nathan Vardi is reporting (on twitter) that Bitar pleaded not guilty, to be expected, surely.

Nevertheless, I wonder if the DOJ said no settlement deals unless he turns himself in, end of discussion. Seems likely that is what happened here, imo. That's why FT lawyer is saying he did this to get players their money back, and DOJ is saying, don't let him out on bail, he had no idea what he had coming with this sealed indictment and 100+ years in jail.

So maybe Bitar did do the noble thing in the end (after doing the greediest stuff ever for four + years)
Bitar no doubt had to be aware of the types of allegations that would be in that unsealed indictment. I suppose this could be right. However there is no way he is doing the noble thing regardless of his sentence. I'm guessing he expects a significant reduction in time for compliance.
sluggger5x is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:51 PM   #384
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 373
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by A MTT PRO View Post
THE PART OF THE PRESS RELEASE THAT IS PARTICULARLY DISTURBING:

"The indictment alledges how Bitar bluffed his player-customers and fixed the game against them as part of an international ponzi scheme that left players empty-handed."


I wonder what proof they have games were rigged????
I doubt it has anything to do with online poker being rigged, and moreso the DoJ loving their clever poker metaphors.
Alex_Striker is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:51 PM   #385
banned
 
Huskermoney00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Omaha Nebraska! Back home!
Posts: 841
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle03 View Post
Nathan Vardi is reporting (on twitter) that Bitar pleaded not guilty, to be expected, surely.

Nevertheless, I wonder if the DOJ said no settlement deals unless he turns himself in, end of discussion. Seems likely that is what happened here, imo. That's why FT lawyer is saying he did this to get players their money back, and DOJ is saying, don't let him out on bail, he had no idea what he had coming with this sealed indictment and 100+ years in jail.

So maybe Bitar did do the noble thing in the end (after doing the greediest stuff ever for four + years)
If he did a good job of running for free for the past year+ I think he turned himself in as part of the deal. It would make no sense if he just said "ahh I think Ill just go get this over with today". Noone wants to go to jail and nor will most of them do it willingly....
Huskermoney00 is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:52 PM   #386
old hand
 
Teph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: rely
Posts: 1,656
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by A MTT PRO View Post
THE PART OF THE PRESS RELEASE THAT IS PARTICULARLY DISTURBING:

"The indictment alledges how Bitar bluffed his player-customers and fixed the game against them as part of an international ponzi scheme that left players empty-handed."


I wonder what proof they have games were rigged????
Your name and reply are perfect imo.
Teph is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:55 PM   #387
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 65
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

0% chance he randomly decided to come to the US without some sort of deal/plea in place. DoJ just wants some hot press releases for people to fawn over, especially now that FTP/Bitar can't really dispute it publicly.

hopefully there's some announcement about returning funds soon.
sunders is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:57 PM   #388
Pooh-Bah
 
novahunterpa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Triple Range Merging
Posts: 5,244
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggger5x View Post
I am having a hard time seeing why Bitar is handing himself in given the damning counts against him.
Likely the same reason that Scheinberg and the rest will turn themselves in eventually. It's no fun being on the run from the DOJ having to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life knowing that at any min you might be arrested
no matter where you're hiding once the DOJ get's your host country to turn on you.

He probably figured he could work out a better deal coming in now rather then later. He might not have even know about the additional charges that the Grand Jury/DOJ hit him with today.
novahunterpa is offline  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:58 PM   #389
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
BigPoppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Solitary,poor,nasty, brutish, short
Posts: 16,412
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle03 View Post
So maybe Bitar did do the noble thing in the end (after doing the greediest stuff ever for four + years)
No way.


I think it's much more likely that he's deluded himself about his ability to skate on the charges or that he was going to eventually lose his Irish visa*/get extradited and figured it was best to look like he was cooperating.



*One possibility is that his visa is tied to his running FTP and that if FTP gets sold or goes out of business he loses the visa (and there's no way he gets a new visa elsewhere as a fugitive).
BigPoppa is online now  
Old 07-02-2012, 08:01 PM   #390
Pooh-Bah
 
DoTheMath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: At my computer
Posts: 4,206
Re: Ray Bitar (FTP CEO) Surrenders to US Government - Confirmed by DOJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondogarage View Post
It is quite possible that this superceding indictment will be sufficient enough to allow lawyers to attempt to claw back all dividends paid to all owners, without needing to show that any individual owner participated in the criminal misconduct.
There has always been a chance that the shareholders would have to cough up, especially if the directors didn't make good on the improper distributions. If the shaeholders had guilty knowledge, they'd have to pay and might be charged. If they didn't have guilty knowledge, they might still have to pay (due to unjust enrichment?) if those with the guility knowledge and responsibility for paying couldn't come up with all the money.

What is it about the superceding indictment that makes you think the chance of shareholders having to pay has now increased?

I would say the specific reference in the superceding indictment to the conference call supports the notion the shareholders were innocent recipients, and therefore reduces the chances they'll have to pay.
DoTheMath is offline  

Closed Thread
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive