Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

Is it me or does anyone else think the professional community could do more to bring online poker back to United States? I know I know we already have a few states that have passed legislation so we just have to patient...really? I'm tired of waiting for legislation that can allow the entire country or at the very least multiple states to form partnerships. I live in California and the most hopeful legislation that is being discussed here includes an opt out of any federal legislation.

I'm a user of social media and follow quite a bit of the pro community and maybe they're doing something behind the scenes that I'm just not privy to. Maybe like God they work in mysterious ways. Maybe they're grinding and just don't have the time (BS!).

In 2003 Christopher Bryan Moneymaker won the main event at the World Series of Poker. His 2003 win is said to have "revolutionized poker" because he was the "first person to become a world champion by qualifying" at an online poker site. This has been referred to in the press as the "Moneymaker Effect." Well that Moneymaker Effect made stars and millionaires out of many in the professional community. They really capitalized on the poker boom.

Most professions have people that advocate for the continued well being of that profession through associations. I know there isn't that much in the way of a poker association but there are those advocating daily to bring online poker back to the USA. The Poker Players Alliance uses social media and from what I can tell is the only organization working tirelessly day in and day out to restore what we took for granted until Black Friday.

The professional community has a great deal more resources than most of us. I'm not just talking about money but "fame". They have a wealth of followers on Twitter and Facebook. They have online poker shows. They have a peer group that most of us don't. Why do I not see or hear about the pro's organizing these resources.

If I'm wrong in my assumptions I welcome your criticism. I would hope that those whose lives were enriched by the poker boom would feel an obligation to give a little back in the way of effort.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

Good luck with this thread. Its probably not going to go well for you but i totally agree. I wish more pro's used their fame/celebrity to bring more light to the online poker issue but i dont think its going to happen.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

I suggest visiting the poker legislation forum.

I think it is safe to say that the no poker pro has influence on the people that are preventing on-line poker from happening. Given that a number of the pros advocating on-line poker 10 years have subsequently run into legal trouble or had their names tarnished by being associated with less reputable sites, it may even be a negative to get other pros involved.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

As to venice10's argument well that sure sounds like a great rationalization. I still call BS because the pro community is a hell of a lot larger than those that were associated with less reputable sites. Even if that argument is valid they could do more to:

1. Encourage their followers to take action.
2. Pool their funds to advertise
3. Organize actions
4. Organize to meet the tribal leaders in California to advise against an opt out of federal legislation and iron out wrinkles that would prevent state compacts.
5. Tweet or direct message their followers more. See point 1.
6. Create a website to counter Sheldon Adelson's site.
7. Utilize their contacts in Hollywood to work with a PR firm on online poker advocacy. Even ask the poker enthusiasts within Hollywood to donate their good looks for a spot.

I'm just throwing out ideas. Poker players are generally smart people and I'd bet ya they can get a little creative. If anyone has more ideas it would sure be more helpful than the status quo.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

Wow, yeah. It seems the well-known pros who became public advocates in Washington were Howard Lederer, Annie Duke, Greg Raymer, Barry Greenstein and Vanessa Rousso. There are probably others, but those seemed to be the biggest spokespersons. A 60 percent shooting percentage in our favor.

Sadly, if you go back and listen to Lederer or Duke speak in support of online poker, they actually did a good job. Good messages, anyway. But now, it might as well be Bernie Madoff speaking in front of an AIG podium about how you should invest in Enron.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

I'm a pro, I've advocated for poker. Nobody gives a **** what I have to say, despite the fact that I'm a well educated, tax paying voter.

are you talking about poker celebrities? Poker celebrities are in general goof ball loud mouths and degenerates. No politician is going to give a crap what these gamblers have to say about the legal issues surrounding online poker.

There are certainly a few very intelligent very well spoken poker celebrities. But unfortunately those few do not have the clout or money to really make a dent in the issue.

If you want someone to advocate for you look to companies that will shovel money into the industry and pay millions in taxes. They're the ones that have the politician's ears.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

If only the people who play poker could team up in some way. Like an alliance.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

So if there are a few very intelligent very well spoken poker celebrities without the clout or money then pair them up with the clout and money. That's another idea to go with the idea's I threw out above.

How about a mix of people like:

Vanessa Selbst, Very well spoken and would be taken seriously

Barry Greenstein, Donates a lot to charity

Phil Galfond, Mild mannered and well spoken

Greg Merson, Can share how poker turned his life around

Lon McEachern, Charisma with a great voice for the cause

I could go on but you get the point and the pros with the clout and money could use a PR firm to cast and organize a campaign.

Wilbury Twist is right that there shouldn’t be a PPA debate here but I would pair my efforts up with them because there is power in numbers. I would bury the hatchet with Lederer long enough to get this done rather than screw myself. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. If anyone has any better ideas they should add them. All I’m trying to do is brainstorm and ask the question why more is not being done.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

I think this is one of the biggest problems in poker. For every player who wants to help the future of the game, there's a whole crowd who don't care about anyone else as long as THEY'RE making money.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

Individual pros won't make a big impact. It requires a well funded body whose purpose is to promote poker interests. I wrote about it last year (see section headed "governing body" in the OP): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...poker-1272091/

That body needs to fight on a number of fronts and organise events/media opportunities/policymaker meetings where the pros can be deployed to make a difference. It also needs to coordinate everyone so there is a consistent message with well-rehearsed arguments.

Unfortunately we don't have that sort of body (the PPA didn't even respond when I asked them to comment on the thread) and we won't get it unless pokerstars decides we will.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

Raidalot:
I thought you made a fine OP in that thread and more people should take the time to read it. It's too easy to be apathetic and defeatist. You lose the war before even heading into battle. One thing poker pros have is influence and the ability to galvanize the rank and file.

Achieving the desired endgame of legalized nationwide online poker in the USA is a huge task. It may seem insurmountable, too many obstacles, not enough money, not enough support from those in power, not enough access to those who have power to even enter into meaningful dialogue. Why even bother getting involved? But like you say, you have to fight on a 'number of fronts' - ie start small, start local. It's actually not that hard to reach, make contact and get face time with local politicians. It's not hard to organize meetings at a local level that can be attended by players and local politicians. it's not hard to get a journalist to show up and write an article about said meetings and the issues at hand.

At least it isn't in Scotland and we could never even think of calling ourselves the land of the free or the greatest country the world. Every local councilor in Scotland, every MP and MSP has time designated to open surgery where you can show up and get face time with them. I remember about four years ago I met with a local Lib Dem Councillor about a piece of legislation I wasn't in favour of...I put forth a coherent argument and he agreed to raise it at his national conference. I met with my Local Labour MP and she was not so forthcoming but it was worth my effort. I did what I could. And I'm a bum.

Can't one do this in the USA? I would struggle to put forth a coherent argument about why online poker should be legal if i were to talk to a local politician. But i reckon Galfond or Haxton could do a fine job. Do it in a room of 100 people, get it in the paper and online in print...doesn't seem like much but every little helps. And you you've done your bit and it inspires others to do their bit. Baby steps.

Doing nothing is always the easiest option. The more rational choice for many. But doing nothing sucks ass. Maybe the pros could do more to get others to do more. I dunno. What's to lose but time?

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

No one cares about online poker outside of poker players. No one cared when black Friday happened, most people I've talked to about the situation tell me online gambling was illegal and I should not have been breaking the law and the only reason why I was up was so that evil gambling site I was on could get me hooked.(trying to explain poker vs gambling to a lay person is impossible...and lets not forget the 'law' that screwed online poker was passed as pork on a port security bill)

Having some 'pro' poker player push for legalization will never work because that person won't appeal to the masses, if a group of respected athletes, say Michael Jordan, and friends were to push for online poker in the US then way may get somewhere.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

To me, it feels like Poker pros if they were to advocate hard for "legalizing" online Poker it would be hard for them to answer the inevitable argument that would be brought on by the opponents of online poker and that is that it is an inherent conflict of interest for them when they advocate. They advocate because they are sponsored by said poker companies, they substantially benefit from legalization.

You're going to get ignorant politicians going, well you want it legal so you can continue to shark the fish and the inexperienced players/gamblers. That's not to say that pros and the overall poker community should not get involved, but its really hard.

And we haven't added on to the idea of all the scummy people involved in poker/online poker that have stolen from the community and have never repaid or answered for their transgressions.

That link directed me to The Best of Joey.

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Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

Someone like Guy Laliberte or Mark Cuban would be better spokesmen for the online poker cause. Being a billionaire who is at least semi recognizable on TV would be huge for gathering support from a wide range of powerful people.

Even pro athletes who play poker would probably be more persuasive with the politicians.

I could see Ron Paul also as a valuable asset to the online poker freedom cause. Libertarian economic policies are essential to poker liberty.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

Hmmm, works for me. I'll post a link to the individual post in hopes that it does the trick. It really is a post worth reading:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...12&postcount=1

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

FYP

And this is why live pros don't want online poker legal. They know it just makes the games tougher playing these internet whiz kids who can triple range merge in their sleep and who are willing to take performance enhancing substances to keep their edge. They would rather see the games be softer so they can pad their wallets. No mystery here.

I read your book/poker manifesto (just kidding) and it was interesting but I agree with some of those that some of it is unrealistic. The concepts would require large sponsorships to meet the financial motive. It's also an idea that would be better discussed after online poker is legal throughout the USA. I can't speak for the PPA even though I'm a member but I would assume they didn't respond because your ideas aren't targeted enough toward legalization.

Back when it was legal we had patches everywhere at the WSOP. There were tons of satellites to gain entry into the main event. There was a buzz every year leading up to it that was a draw for the recreational player to check it out. If it were legal now we would have a multitude of US based casinos offering their promo's to create the buzz that I feel is lost to the recreational player these days. I wish we had a measure of the size of the pool of players that would sit down for an online qualifier but don't have the confidence or means to play a live qualifier.

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Like Michael Phelps, Rafael Nadal, and Borris Becker?

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It might be hard but there are pro's that could do it and command respect like I mentioned before.

The community as a whole could come up with an online campaign that has people that say "I'm a teacher. I'm also a poker player". I'm an engineer. I'm also a poker player". I'm a fireman. I'm also a poker player". "I'm a CEO. I'm also a poker player".

Follow that up with a few words about how poker sharpens the mind; Teaches critical thinking, math, etc.

The poker community could crowd fund it and George Castanza would be the icing on the cake with that ad.

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thanks that link worked.

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I forgot to mention that the online campaign could evolve to more state focused radio or tv spots where the momentum is thought to be greatest...such as California. If we could get California going with our population it might be like domino's after that.

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Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

yeah, i'm sure if we just call our senators another 10,000 times, they'll suddenly start doing what the people want instead of what their agendas are.

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

You sound like a defeated man. I guess you can lay down and die or you can get creative.

1. Get on board with the PPA. (it's so damn hard to click a few buttons each day though right?)
2. Look at the ideas I've already thrown out and network.
3. Motivate your followers.
4. Do Something

Re: Pro's advocating for online poker?
 

people said the govt would never give FTP money back. You're def not gonna get anything if you don't even take two seconds to ask.

as more people get involved the amount of exposure the movement gains becomes exponential. it's easy to avoid a few people behind a cause, it's hard to avoid a few more and almost impossible to ignore large numbers.