"Celeste credits her success in poker to dedication and determination"

Maybe I just need to find some dedication and determination to elevate my game..

They shouldve rather banned trainingsites and locked up people who were willing to coach or give advice 7 years ago and today u wouldnt have to deal wit an armada of young near gto scumbag seatscripters across all stakes...

People got wat they asked for...

OP is a 2kNL reg FYI

i had no idea it was this bad.

that is disgraceful and if Stars hasn't tried to remedy at least that i duno wtf will force them into action.

it's been years that those scripts are a big issue and the topic has been discussed to death in other sub forums(where people really play poker) and it never had a positive effect, most of computer specialists thinking that it's not possible to do so and the pokerroom representants saying that they hear the complains but won't or can't do something about it

lol at all posters discovering the fact 'lately'
lol at the people pretending it's the new management fault
lol NVG

It's clearly absurd and just bad for poker in so many ways. This isn't even up for debate.

Im not sure how anyone could ever think otherwise.

Therefore, it needs to be stopped. End of story.

amen

Unfortunately I think the issue stems from enforceability - banning seating scripts is one thing but trying to actually enforce that ban effectively is a separate matter. If you ban something with out an effective means to police that order then you simply give more of an edge to those willing to find ways to circumvent the ban.

The only really effective way I can think of to get rid of scripts is to make all games Zoom.

Can they just make wait lists for open tables like ftp has? Level the field?

@sparky99,

You don't need to go that far. If you are willing to do it then they could also get rid of the lobby and just have the quick seat tab (in PS7) where you get a random seat of the correct stakes. Even better if you have to post your first BB before you know who else is at the table.

Detecting seating scripts and scanners is absolutely straightforward, the IP address/logon is constantly scanning the lobby the script is firing off for loads of tables and then either being ignored or used to bum hunt. The outcome alone tells you who never mind the response time when a fish sits

It is absurdly easy for the site to work out who is using these tools, it would then be poisible to either ban them or change the seating priority for them - for example building in a pause for that player requesting a seat or requiring them to take and play any reserved seat.

They can be detected so then the options are to ban them or to differentiate against those using the software. The options there are many, allowing them to open/view only part of the lobby at a time (humans can't check every table all the time, bots can and are), delays to their seat request, prioritisdation for others, limiting total number of tables all are options if you don't straight ban. The ban though is simpler it just has more enforcement overhead and would annoy many high volume players.

Many of them could be detected now - I agree. the point is once the ban is implemented then detection prevention becomes a critical factor to the script writers. I think it's naive to believe that competent programmers couldn't find ways to circumvent detection. It's not like sites are 100% bot free all of the time. Why would seating scripts be any different?

for instance you could set it up so all scanning was done on a secondary computer which then fed to a primary computer - that would avoid one obvious detection method. You could build in a time delay or not take 100% of seats etc etc. There are literally as many work arounds as detection methods.

Same applies to HUD's/tableninja etc etc they are easy to detect now because they are not being designed to be stealth. Change the rules of the site and suddenly stealth becomes paramount. Initially the 'quality/effectiveness' of the new stealth scripts would likely be inferior but in time they would find better and better ways to avoid detection.

Changing the fundamental way people are assigned seats seems like the only viable method. Removing a players ability to seat/table select would be a huge move and could alienate a ton of players.

Just my 2c.

I think its a nice proposal, but the question is whether that will actually be enforcable without damaging the total rake generated by players.

From Stars perspective they obviously want to protect the integrity of the game, but definately not at the cost of their own revenue.

If it was somehow possible to implement a method akin to yours and still attract regulars in same volume as now, then that would obviously be preferable for both Stars and all players.

At least people like you are doing some thinking and trying to solve the problem - I doubt stars are even giving the subject any significant attention.

+1 to everything that ImJason has said.
It's a massive effort to even sit down at a table these days as the R sign is usually occupying all the seat's. Surely stars can just ban the scripts and then just make absurd punishments for people that continue to use them.

Well taking away their ubiquity would help sort the table problem today. The seatgrabber has a very simple and measurable outcome, if the grabber is effective that would show up in the outcome for this one thing for that player.

If they consistently get the seat, if their response times/actions are outside the human norm then action can be taken either to warn them or block the effect of the illegal software. Also many would comply, today many reluctantly pay out for this "legal" software as they are forced to fight fire with fire and the result...tables noone can get a seat at in a timely way.

Seriously we have built a system using third party software that actually stops casual players accessing the games, it is insane.

Ban every software that interacts with PS client including HUDs.

I think this could definately be the best option, but people could still just pull up huds on a separate computer..

+infinity

This.

Guys, guys, guys... Think about the whole picture when saying stuff like "Ban every software that interacts with PS client including HUDs."

If that was to be enforced then all handhistories would no longer be exportable and that raises a whole new variety of issues.

Remember to think about changes in the full perspective of influence it would have on the software and gaming experience as we know it.

well this discussion is there for years now and stars maked it kinda obv that they don't give a F***!

Only possibility i see now for those scripts to disappear is when stars changed the lobby in the way they wanna have it and it´s best for them(all zoom, table starters). After they did this they´ll promote this as improvement for the player, cause they maked seating-scripts unnecessary,but in reality its just a big improvement for them to make more money(zoom: smaller WR, more hands => more rake!)

funny how things changed ..pre BF you would have been grilled for this on 20 pages of insults immediately following your post. next the thread would get forum slided to page 7 of NVG in the fraction of a second. in a perverted way i kind of miss the action :-)

this would be great if it were possible to implement without someone writing a program that got around it

ante zoom sounds like a solid idea

You would still be able to manually import handhistories into your database.

How so? If the HH's arent being stored? If you store the HH's it will inevitably provide a opportunity to use a HUD.. Maybe if you write down all the cards and actions on every street and then manually typed them into a file imported to a database, it could work, but I guess not really worth the effort. lol