What the **** is that cash out option and why isn't the "fee" for this option not included in the 9% rape? That's like saying "well sir you are about to bet the river so we're going to charge you extra". 9% rape should be enough to cover all the game mechanics shouldn't it?

They don't know how often this button will be clicked, so not really possible to include it in the rake figure.

However, it does seem like the "rake" on the "cash out" button doesn't seem be published anywhere, which is surprising. I would think that would have to be disclosed.

golden sng were a dream for the liquidity of the games. I am still in favor of doing golden sng to most of the games that have 0-3 games running most of the times like

Just won 8-man 1$ game. Won 2$, satisfying..

This gametype is another extremely clear sign regs are not welcomed at PS anymore and although it is a process I personally look forward to, because I plan to play on Stars when it softens up, I think this idea where the winner gets less money then players finishing behind him is really bad. People play to win, in every game they play and they wanna be rewarded for that.

If this game takes off and runs consistently Stars will have even more reason to speed up the "depokerization" of the site. Regs should really take the action elsewhere.

It's a subset of regs.

• They are nits.
• They sitout when their opponents have a clue.
• They take too long because they play too many tables.
• They do not chat unless they are on tilt and berate other players.

It's because of these that heads up is no longer available. And it's because of these players that make poker boring for anyone sitting at their tables.
The only logical reason for PokerStars is to find ways to remove these players from the site. And it is annoying as hell for everyone else.

The irony is that the people who complains the most are the same subset of regs.

Pretty much this. I don't play much hu but buddy of mine used to play hu for a living and his day was this : I open ~50 tables and just wait for a villain to arrive. When he arrives if he 3bets or raises during the first five hands I'll prolly just quit him.

Dont think reg nl and plo tables gonna soften anytime soon. People are just playing other sites and scripting the stars lobby.

It's not published because it is 0%.

This is an accumulator prize pool game. All buy ins (edit: minus the 7-9% rake) go into the pool. Payouts come out of the pool. What comes out of the prize pool is whatever final prize is choosen, one of the 3 amounts drawn at the start of the game OR the offered cash out amount whichever is choosen by the winner. All they said is the offered amount of the cash out is going to be significantly less than the EV of choosing between the 3 possible prize amounts which just encourages people to take the 1 in 3 chance for the big payout.

This idea that PokerStars is secretly removing some portion of the prize pool to pad their profit margin is a made up conspiracy theory.

So as two out of three winners don't pick the highest prize offered, the difference between their pick and the highest prize goes back into the pool? That means the offered prizes will steadily increase over time?

No the payouts (if no cashouts are offered or accepted) are according to the payout/odds tables published. I have not worked out the math but the EV for the $1 game should be $0.91

The spin for 3 prizes then pick 1 from 3 is all smoke and mirrors it does not change the actual odds of receiving any specific prize. They want to discourage the taking of the cash out option because if they offered a cash out of the EV of the three offered prize's that amount would be something more than 1/3rd of the big prize and if the cash out option was taken every time the prize pool would eventually run short.

Pokerstars...slowly killing the dream.

I don't understand what you're saying.

My reasoning is simple - the "cash out option" is, as you say, below the EV of the 3 offered prizes. So, whenever someone picks that "cash out" option, PokerStars benefits more than the base 9% rake.

In other terms - without the "cashout" option, PokerStars would make on average 9 cents for every $1 buyin. That's obvious from the pay tables, and it is printed and explicit.

However, assuming some players opt for "cash out", PokerStars will, long-term, make more than 9% of the buy-ins. To me this is self-evident, but it is quite possible I've missed something.

Fwiw, I don't think there's any conspiracy. And of course the "pick one of three" is smoke and mirrors and doesn't change things. But the 4th option - "cash out" - does change things. That the 'cash out' option makes PokerStars extra money on top of the stated rake, and I'm somewhat surprised that the "edge" PokerStars takes in this option is not apparently published somewhere.

Ok so let's say I take the cashout option, I now get less than my EV. This has to mean that other games now have higher EV and if that is not true then PS is raping us.

Which of the two options is actually happening?

No. And lol at made up conspiracy theory.


As far as I know, PokerStars has still not responded to questions about that amount the minus from the "cash out" option prize.

A post from the Product Guy:

Mentioned this in the thread but a rec doesn't care about ev. He plays the spin and wins it. Pokerstars how much did I win? Ohh what I get less than the 2nd place. He ain't playing that poopshow anytime soon again.

+1

No mention of the fee taken for the "cash out" option.

A recreational fish isn't going to think "At first this might seem unfair" they will think "This IS unfair."

Can't understand why this game is in the client, such a bad decision from ps.

Oh right, it's for the $$$

Finally it has arrived ; A completely non transparent cash drag.
You cant observe games , view payouts or track %s .
Rake is subjective as payouts are determined by luck.
No way a regulator could keep up with regular variances.
Have played and asked players to inform me if they ever get a GTD prize over total buy in as the lowest of the three spins .
None yet but plenty of over 60% cash drags .
Openly ripping off players is what this looks like.
Waiting for the end

Can't observe sites cant datamine these either.

Added $30 stake as well it seems like. Does that mean these are profitable? Or are these more like BTC (beat the clock) type games?

Means they are profitable for pokerstars. Double the stakes double the profit.

what is the rake?