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Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable

06-25-2012 , 10:14 AM
Several European Union countries made an encounter last week and it seems they all tend to think that a .eu would be better in long term. But we are far away unfortunately from an agreement between european poker sites.
So sad I can't play PLO8 HU
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:46 PM
soo has the rake changed or cash games are still unbeatable there?
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-18-2012 , 04:01 PM
i feel bad for the french. i mean for the guys who made a living from poker. it's really sad what's happening. the rake is a joke.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-18-2012 , 05:11 PM
how much is the rake there?
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 02:52 AM
It's not only the rake.

French players get taxed twice. First they have to pay tax for every pot and if you are winning you got taxed another time.

Micro and small stake players pay up to 20 bb rake and tax per 100 hands. Only a matter of time for 99% of the players till the roll is gone. Will those deposit again and again? Surely not.

Successful midstakers + will get robbed by the taxman.

This system can not work forever.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 02:54 AM
no money in poker anymore, everyone is too good
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highfish
It's not only the rake.

French players get taxed twice. First they have to pay tax for every pot and if you are winning you got taxed another time.

Micro and small stake players pay up to 20 bb rake and tax per 100 hands. Only a matter of time for 99% of the players till the roll is gone. Will those deposit again and again? Surely not.

Successful midstakers + will get robbed by the taxman.

This system can not work forever.
That's insane.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinner
they've always been greedy. stars is run by a family in europe. ftp is run by poker players. ftp doesnt **** people over as much as stars
lol

Last edited by fightmyway; 12-19-2012 at 10:25 AM. Reason: slow poney sigh
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 10:27 AM
the house always wins lol

at this point u might aswell go play roulette with your poker roll if youre french and play smallstakes
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highfish
It's not only the rake.

French players get taxed twice. First they have to pay tax for every pot and if you are winning you got taxed another time.

Micro and small stake players pay up to 20 bb rake and tax per 100 hands. Only a matter of time for 99% of the players till the roll is gone. Will those deposit again and again? Surely not.

Successful midstakers + will get robbed by the taxman.

This system can not work forever.
jesus christ. that is seriously messed up.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 08:07 PM
this is crazy...no viable options I guess then!
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 08:22 PM
This is a good example why we need to lobby for sustainable poker economy as players.

I think our focus (and PPA) is too much on supporting other interest vs staking player interest.

I.e. in the US the player interest must be player pools and sustainable rake. Rake should be relative to money won and not be charged per time or pot online. The existing model already is unsustainable.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-19-2012 , 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tib
With a rake of 7% up to 3€ and a preflop rake of 2%... So pokerstars took 0% of the governement taxes in charge and made any cash game form unprofitable. Just for information on pokerstars.com rake is 5% up to 2€ without preflop rake.

GG Cashgame

PokerStars Game #46167091537: Hold'em No Limit (€0.05/€0.10 EUR) - 2010/06/30 14:24:34 CET [2010/06/30 8:24:34 ET]
Table 'Pirola' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: enzo093 (€7.71 in chips)
Seat 2: Admin17100 (€8.44 in chips)
Seat 3: flavinio563 (€2.95 in chips)
Seat 4: Milouser (€2.48 in chips)
Seat 5: Gui03200 (€10.91 in chips)
Seat 6: jiph (€15.73 in chips)
enzo093: posts small blind €0.05
Admin17100: posts big blind €0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
flavinio563: raises €0.40 to €0.50
Milouser: folds
Gui03200: folds
jiph: folds
enzo093: folds
Admin17100: folds
Uncalled bet (€0.40) returned to flavinio563
flavinio563 collected €0.24 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot €0.25 | Rake €0.01
Seat 1: enzo093 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Admin17100 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: flavinio563 collected (€0.24)
Seat 4: Milouser folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Gui03200 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jiph (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

PokerStars Game #46166991641: Hold'em No Limit (€0.05/€0.10 EUR) - 2010/06/30 14:20:39 CET [2010/06/30 8:20:39 ET]
Table 'Pirola' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: enzo093 (€6.66 in chips)
Seat 2: Admin17100 (€7.75 in chips)
Seat 3: flavinio563 (€5 in chips)
Seat 4: Milouser (€2.63 in chips)
Seat 5: Gui03200 (€11.87 in chips)
Seat 6: jiph (€14.92 in chips)
Admin17100: posts small blind €0.05
flavinio563: posts big blind €0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Milouser: folds
Gui03200: folds
jiph: folds
enzo093: folds
Admin17100: calls €0.05
flavinio563: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qd Tc Ts]
Admin17100: checks
flavinio563: bets €0.20
Admin17100: calls €0.20
*** TURN *** [Qd Tc Ts] [4h]
Admin17100: checks
flavinio563: checks
*** RIVER *** [Qd Tc Ts 4h] [8h]
Admin17100: bets €0.20
flavinio563: calls €0.20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Admin17100: shows [6h Th] (three of a kind, Tens)
flavinio563: mucks hand
Admin17100 collected €0.93 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot €1 | Rake €0.07
Board [Qd Tc Ts 4h 8h]
Seat 1: enzo093 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Admin17100 (small blind) showed [6h Th] and won (€0.93) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 3: flavinio563 (big blind) mucked
Seat 4: Milouser folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Gui03200 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jiph folded before Flop (didn't bet)
MAYBE SOMETHING TO DO WITH LAW FROM THAT COUNTRY?
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-20-2012 , 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highfish
It's not only the rake.

French players get taxed twice. First they have to pay tax for every pot and if you are winning you got taxed another time.

Micro and small stake players pay up to 20 bb rake and tax per 100 hands. Only a matter of time for 99% of the players till the roll is gone. Will those deposit again and again? Surely not.

Successful midstakers + will get robbed by the taxman.

This system can not work forever.
Seriously? You have to pay tax on your withdrawals (winnings)?

I didn't think it worked that way. I thought you pay the tax as part of the rake and that was it?


On a separate note, even though the rake is very high, I think the games are still quite beatable. Too many fish
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-20-2012 , 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuggie
On a separate note, even though the rake is very high, I think the games are still quite beatable. Too many fish
It's my feeling (and thats only what it is, a feeling) that while France and other euro countries were a reservoir of fish these past years, that the level has considerably readjusted lately, maybe over the past 2 years.

Lots of information and training ressources are now available in French, and the younger generations all speak enough English to use ressources such as 2+2 & training sites...

So yeah, not sure Pokerstars.fr is as soft as some might expect.

This, or I just continue to suck at poker.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-22-2012 , 12:09 AM
I support lower raking sites and you can find prop offers for them if you look around or google that.

I been playing at a smaller site recently that always has some games going though and getting 80% rakeback .. turned 700 bucks into over 15k there.

get about 2 to 3k in rakeback a month is play a fair amount.
pm me if u want.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-22-2012 , 02:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuggie
Seriously? You have to pay tax on your withdrawals (winnings)?

I didn't think it worked that way. I thought you pay the tax as part of the rake and that was it?


On a separate note, even though the rake is very high, I think the games are still quite beatable. Too many fish
A few years ago, it was common knowledge that poker winnings were not to be taxed, as it is a game of chance (in France lottery or casino winnings are not taxed). Mails were sent to our IRS that confirmed this, fiscal lawyers were saying the same, all was good.

When they regulated poker, a new law was written saying explicitly that poker was a game of chance, to enable the gvt to tax every hand or tournament buyins. Now that it was official, it seemed we didn't have to worry about income tax at all. However, many grinders smelled something fishy and went expatriate to london, malta or thailand were they cannot be taxed.

In the end of last year, the IRS launched a wave of fiscal checks to pretty much all known french players, sponsored pros, guys with hendon mob winnings, coaches, etc. Arguing that in the long term, skills limit the chance element, they are asking for taxes on the poker revenues on last 3 or 5 years. The "funny" thing of it is that they are claiming heavy penalty taxes, because those revenues were not declared in time and because it was an "occult" business. So for some guys, they are asking from 80% to 100+% of the winnings. It's completly insane. The procedure is quite lengthy and pretty much all controlled players are fighting with lawyers against it.

Now we fear that a second wave of fiscal checks will be launched against all online grinders, based on the data the regulated instance got from the pokersites.

Those ****ers don't realize they are taxing every players because it is a game of chance, and later tax the winning players because it's a game of skill... great logic.

A few months ago, the gvt officially stated that poker revenues have to be declared, but how to do it is still very vague. It will probably be taxed around 40/50%.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-22-2012 , 05:50 AM
that's ****ing ridiculous. may as well stop playing poker altogether and play lottery instead
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-22-2012 , 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc14
It's my feeling (and thats only what it is, a feeling) that while France and other euro countries were a reservoir of fish these past years, that the level has considerably readjusted lately, maybe over the past 2 years.

Lots of information and training ressources are now available in French, and the younger generations all speak enough English to use ressources such as 2+2 & training sites...

So yeah, not sure Pokerstars.fr is as soft as some might expect.

This, or I just continue to suck at poker.
nl25/50 can be suuuuper soft at times

but if you play full time I agree,it's a (quite good TAGish)-reg fest. Not even speaking about nl100,the only times I gave it a shot lately I got crushed,while the nl100 on stars.com was ok (still not beating it,but some rungoods made it feel ok)


putaindepays
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
12-22-2012 , 07:01 PM
pretty standard, those govt mofos don't view poker as we do, they just think its an another casino game for people to have fun by wasting money, thats why they are not even taking winning player's opinion into consideration, you are just not supposed to win, go find a real job they "say".
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
01-06-2013 , 06:10 AM
I am correct that there are no Cash Tables over 400nl available, right?
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
01-06-2013 , 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinner
they've always been greedy. stars is run by a family in europe. ftp is run by poker players. ftp doesnt **** people over as much as stars
lul
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
01-23-2013 , 08:56 AM
Hi,
I am playing NL100 and 200 HU and 6max atm on other sites and consider to deposit on stars.fr.
Is it worth a try considering rake on these 2 levels?
Regards.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote
01-23-2013 , 09:27 AM
Nope.

The other day I was watching a HU match between 2 regz at NL200 / 4 tables. At the end of the match, one player was down 1500€, the other one down 200€. Rake was 1700€ overall lol ! Sure that was a long match with a lot of hands, but WTF ?

Last edited by 13_Xerxes; 01-23-2013 at 09:33 AM.
Pokerstars.fr just started cash games tables and made them unprofitable Quote

      
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