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12-15-2014 , 07:45 PM

#26

PeteBlow

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,550

Why is taking folded cards into account stupid?
They do it on TV...

Quote

12-15-2014 , 07:47 PM

#27

zizek

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteBlow

Why is taking folded cards into account stupid?
They do it on TV...

Because in short-handed games you could use that information to find out specific holdings that people had.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 07:52 PM

#28

Monorail

adept

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 991

wut? why is this a big deal. Other huge sites have been doing it for years.
Won't make a shred of difference.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 08:11 PM

#29

limon

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 6,343

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckofficial

I wonder whats the thinking behind this decision.

Im guessing a flashing red button that says INSURANCE.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 08:45 PM

#30

kingweed

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 46,752

I noticed this the other day at the tables.

PKR and ipoker have done it for yonks. I like it.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 08:54 PM

#31

Natural945

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 255

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monorail

wut? why is this a big deal. Other huge sites have been doing it for years.
Won't make a shred of difference.

Only really makes a difference when playing 3 handed. When the all-in percentages take into account folded cards, you can obviously, use this information to determine what cards a player is folding, the time when there is a discrepancy with the percentages.

This is not a very obvious edge however, with an extremely large sample size and sufficient analysis you could easily exploit this info.

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12-15-2014 , 09:00 PM

#32

DecisionMade

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557

Why are people saying they take folded cards into account with the equities? No one has proof of that and I think we can all agree that Stars wouldn't do that for the reason pointed out by zizek above.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:06 PM

#33

PeteBlow

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,550

Quote:

Originally Posted by DecisionMade

Because the percentages they display are not the percentages that you would have with only exposed cards taken into account.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:16 PM

#34

au4all

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,872

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstafford93

Yeah I've had this too. Sometimes the percentages are way off too, got it in w/ 22 v AT and apparently pre flop I was 70% favourite.

Most have been 4 dead aces and tens. If you're playing heads-up something is seriously broken.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:28 PM

#35

PeteBlow

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,550

Example from the FT of Big 22 just now.
6 handed.

Player 1 - Ks Kd
Player 2 - 10c 10h

Flop - 7h Kh 10s

Player 1 - 99.1%
Player 2 - 0.9%

Also worth noting that if the board had run out JQ, the displayed percentages would've shown 50 50, not 100 100 or 0 0.

Make of this as you will.

Also worth noting that the replayer does NOT show the percentages and it's bloody hard to even note the board and the percentages for two players before the next card comes and they all change.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:37 PM

#36

DecisionMade

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteBlow

Because the percentages they display are not the percentages that you would have with only exposed cards taken into account.

Can someone prove this?

E: you posted just before I did.

E2: Made an error in reading the HH so ninja-edited one last time. I hope to god that they don't include folded cards, or that its an oversight that they'll fix.

Last edited by DecisionMade; 12-15-2014 at 09:45 PM.

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12-15-2014 , 09:40 PM

#37

AKingdom

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,520

It's funny how PS is bringing gimmicks/features into their client like smileys, show only one card and percentages that have been in the Merge client for at least 5 (probably closer to 10) years.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:41 PM

#38

0.10$ warrior

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 211

lol what's the problem with this? it's pretty easy to calculate yourself anyway, and most players know about what chance to win they have with 1 or 2 cards remaining or the pre flop equity

however it shouldn't take folded cards into consideration because that's information that you shouldn't have, you can only know what cards ppl folded if you are cheating, disappointing that pokerstars made such a mistake (**** you amaya)

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12-15-2014 , 09:46 PM

#39

David Sklansky

Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,074

If insurance or deals are offered, taking all cards into account prevents collusion.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:49 PM

#40

frenchfish

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,369

Quote:

Originally Posted by domgio7

Next step, offer insurance with high vig

ahaa first thing that come to mind also . Would be great thought , of course not the "high vig" part, but one buy in / 100k hands and i m in fosho.

I used to be on insuredplay.com and i loved this service, even thought i ran 15buy in above EV while using it ...

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:51 PM

#41

PeteBlow

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,550

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:52 PM

#42

DecisionMade

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557

I'm not sure why pokerstars would want players to know that they're, for example, drawing dead instead of having hope for a one-outer.

Wouldn't people prefer to not know those things like in the true spirit of the game?

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:52 PM

#43

DecisionMade

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557

E: actually, aren't those equities correct, PeteBlow?

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:54 PM

#44

frenchfish

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,369

Quote:

Originally Posted by DecisionMade

I guess your picture there proves that they include folded cards, PeteBlow. I'm definitely not a fan.

his picture only prove that the system does not work verry well ...

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:57 PM

#45

DecisionMade

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 557

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchfish

his picture only prove that the system does not work verry well ...

No, the equities in the picture are actually correct for the 3 Jack outs. I edited my post.

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:57 PM

#46

TrustySam

journeygirl

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,198

Has anybody managed to find where the option to turn this feature off is? The equities popping up at the table were so unexpected, wasn't able to catch what the message said before it disappeared

Quote

12-15-2014 , 09:57 PM

#47

PeteBlow

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,550

That's the first one I've grabbed. It shows correct numbers.
I'll grab another in a minute at a full table...

Quote

12-15-2014 , 10:01 PM

#48

PeteBlow

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 14,550

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrustySam

Has anybody managed to find where the option to turn this feature off is? The equities popping up at the table were so unexpected, wasn't able to catch what the message said before it disappeared

It's in Options > Showing/mucking hands.