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Old 08-28-2013, 07:22 PM   #76
bumpnrun
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Yeah good post scroo. I'm in NZ and I'm in the process of quitting. Other countries are doing this too and in general the state of global online poker is f**ked
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:27 PM   #77
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It will happen in NZ too btw. Just a matter of time really. But job/career prospects here are nowhere near as good as Oz.

In theory this should make grinding online more attractive for us than yous skippys, but it's still not.

Sadly the landscape has changed to the point it's just not worth it anymore. I'm struggling to find a job I want as it is with a weird looking 5 year gap on my CV. Unless you are a total baller or a rec player the Oz govt is probably doing you a favor
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:38 PM   #78
RimmerOdds
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Will believe it when I see it. They have threatening this for a long time. Take a chill pill everyone.
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:04 PM   #79
Chriseddy999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scroosko View Post
unless someone else has chosen your very specific 2p2 name as their online poker name u have played less than 200 games online and are losing. doubt you should be thinking about relocating

apologies if i am mistaken
Do you want to test out your theory with some heads up cash?
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:06 PM   #80
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahurazor View Post
http://www.pokerasiapacific.com/elec...oker41148.html

Conclusion
The status quo for online poker in Australia is the best we can hope for after this election. There is almost no chance of legalisation and regulation of poker.
If, as is increasingly likely, the Liberal party wins the election, the outlook is grim. Their explicit, stated policy is to ban online poker. The Greens and Xenophon will not stop them in the Senate.
As such, I recommend you reduce your current online bankroll to the bare minimum. As a general common sense measure, you should not have huge amounts online if you are an Australian player in any case.
Chances are you have a few more weeks to play online poker in Australia, a few months if the Coalition is slow to act on their new policy. Enjoy it while you can.


You aren`t even allowed to play violent video games, how the hell can you expect to be allowed to play poker online?

Grab yourself a 3,5 liter can foster and let it go man
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:35 PM   #81
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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Originally Posted by The Detonator View Post
they arent going to regulate it, they're just going to enforce a law that already stands that prohibits gaming companies from offering online gaming to Australian citizens

At the moment that law is basically ignored/not enforced. Tony Abbot has come out and clearly stated (this month) that he plans to enforce this anti internet gambling act because hes scared of people having the ability to lose money on phones. He specifically talks about poker

Our only hope is hes too busy for the next year and doesnt do it, and in the meantime the USA find a good solution to online poker and makes Abbot realise theres another way
Ok I've seen the link now. You can scrap most of what I have said which were just generalisations based on history.

It doesn't look good but one thing I can say is that it appears that this isn't policy of the liberal party but merely an aspiration.

If they get into government, I am sure that this issue will get bandied around the caucus room and watered down if it has to be implemented at all.

Remember Xenophone campaigns on a removal of all poker machines and even that isn't possible so it seems that this total banning of poker may be an extreme ideology of the party atm and open to some modification.

But I get the idea that there isn't too much value to government of regulating the poker industry, that there only two options are to leave it be or shut it down all together.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:22 PM   #82
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Seeing as Tim is answering Qs in here...

When Liberal says they will "investigate methods of enforcing the IGA", to what degree do you think that will be influenced by lobby dollars from the interest groups that currently lobby Labor to maintain the status quo, and to what degree is this likely to require a fresh submissions process/review of the IGA rather than immediate 'switch flicking' (which is what happened in 2012 I think)?

To what degree do you think saying they will "investigate" is actually just them hedging the fact that they have chosen this policy stance as an area to oppose the incumbent Government without committing themselves to definitely interfere with an industry that generates tax revenue/has a measure of lobbying power?

Assuming Liberal are voted in, what are the key things that determine the level of influence Xenophon has (for the less politically knowledgeable ITT)?
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:12 PM   #83
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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Originally Posted by risk2Dupside View Post
Assuming Liberal are voted in, what are the key things that determine the level of influence Xenophon has (for the less politically knowledgeable ITT)?
Well it is looking like such a bloodbath win for the Libs I doubt they will need the likes of Xenophon and co to help pass legislation. I am far from an expert but X is in the senate and Libs will have a huge majority in the lower house.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:35 PM   #84
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Coalition will have a large majority in the HoR, but not in the Senate (odds are 1.001 against coalition senate majority on sportsbet.), so the independents may be important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Senate
Currently the Greens hold the balance of power (Labor 31, Coalition 34, Greens 9, others 2), so if the greens vote with either major party they can pass legislation in the Senate.)

Independent can have a lot of power if they break a stalemate. Xenaphon is an independent.

Last edited by jarrydg; 08-28-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:46 PM   #85
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

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Well theyre in the stages of passing the GCSB bill in New Zealand which allows the goverment to monitor internet / phone activity a la CISPA in the States, so you might want to consider ruling New Zealand out.
This bill has nothing to do with online poker, in fact its no where near this extreme at all. Dont post rubbish like this if ur not from new zealand, cos u dont understand it at all.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:53 PM   #86
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Everyone should remember that the members of the senate remains status quo up until June of next year (so Labor and greens still have the majority), so it is unlikely the Coalition, if they win, will try anything on poker as it wouldn't be considered to be a big ticket item to try to dismantle such as the likes of the carbon, mining tax etc.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:01 PM   #87
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by risk2Dupside View Post
Seeing as Tim is answering Qs in here...

When Liberal says they will "investigate methods of enforcing the IGA", to what degree do you think that will be influenced by lobby dollars from the interest groups that currently lobby Labor to maintain the status quo, and to what degree is this likely to require a fresh submissions process/review of the IGA rather than immediate 'switch flicking' (which is what happened in 2012 I think)?

To what degree do you think saying they will "investigate" is actually just them hedging the fact that they have chosen this policy stance as an area to oppose the incumbent Government without committing themselves to definitely interfere with an industry that generates tax revenue/has a measure of lobbying power?

Assuming Liberal are voted in, what are the key things that determine the level of influence Xenophon has (for the less politically knowledgeable ITT)?
1) I'm not aware of how much money online gaming companies are spending to lobby. There may be some, but I have never heard of it. I have seen Clubs Australia saying the government should crack down on online casino gambling (including poker), and we know they have significant lobbying clout.

2) It's possible they are hedging. It's possible they will do nothing and things will continue they way they are now. I've always argued this is one of the possible scenarios. Given online casinos and poker sites are operating illegally at the moment, I doubt they are generating tax revenue for the government.

3) Good question. The latest polling for the senate suggest Xenophon could be in a balance of power position in the senate after the election. If so, he will have a ton of influence. And he hates online casinos (and he lumps poker in with table games, of course).

The problem is that Tony Abbott has specifically targeted online poker as a problem in his public statements. The problem is Coalition policy is to find a way to enforce the ban. As you say, they do only say 'investigate', and this is not a high-profile issue, so it may slip to the wayside. I certainly hope that happens.

But with the public statements made by the Coalition, coupled with Xenophon potentially being in a position of influence, I am getting worried.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:20 PM   #88
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

People always complain about govt failing to follow through on pre-election promises. I'm 90% sure this will fall by the wayside of carbon tax, public services, balancing the books, stopping the boats etc.

The number 1 risk IMO is if online poker becomes the scape goat for the huge sports betting and club pokies groups. If those billion dollar industries can divert public attention by sinking what might be a million dollar online poker industry they will crush it. It's a good news story for everyone except a handful of poker players.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:25 PM   #89
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

I would hope that TiltStars would have learnt from Black Friday and have someone looking into this and making certain politicians aware of separation between online table games and poker.

There is certainly smoke with the app being pulled and some of the rhetoric being spouted.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:26 PM   #90
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

With the tax laws the way they are and given the off-shore domiciles of these poker companies, they would be deriving no income from them unless that is they come up with some form of license for them to have to pay to operate in this country - a sort of regulatory method if you will.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:32 PM   #91
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

ty for response; my comment about lobby money was really just a presumption that there are companies that fall under the banner of legal online gaming operators and do pay Australian income tax (Sportsbet, Betfair etc) that while not negatively impacted by the IGA, would at least be considered an 'interest group' with some lobbying input should its enforcement come under renewed focus and thus warrant a formal review of the legislation. If this is true I think it is important to clarify, as saying "online poker has no lobby group" may be misleading if it leads people to think a Liberal Government is likely to just flick the lights off because nobody cares.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:35 PM   #92
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Sampler View Post

4) Xenophon is a gormless half-wit who refuses to differentiate between games of skill and games of chance.
I took this from the apple mobile poker app removal thread.

But hang on, the Labor party has already legislated for online poker to be banned. And the Act itself doesn't differentiate between games of skill and games of chance as it states:

"gambling service" means:

(a) a service for the placing, making, receiving or acceptance of bets; or

(b) a service the sole or dominant purpose of which is to introduce individuals who wish to make or place bets to individuals who are willing to receive or accept those bets; or

(c) a service for the conduct of a lottery; or

(d) a service for the supply of lottery tickets; or

(e) a service for the conduct of a game, where:

(i) the game is played for money or anything else of value; and

(ii) the game is a game of chance or of mixed chance and skill; and

(iii) a customer of the service gives or agrees to give consideration to play or enter the game; or

(f) a gambling service (within the ordinary meaning of that expression) that is not covered by any of the above paragraphs.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...gaming_service

And poker is a mixed game of skill and chance (luck) - so the lobbyists need this whole Act to be repealed because unless it is Abbott is within his rights to enforce it as the Labor government should be doing atm in a strict literal sense.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:39 PM   #93
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bundy5 View Post
I took this from the apple mobile poker app removal thread.

But hang on, the Labor party has already legislated for online poker to be banned. And the Act itself doesn't differentiate between games of skill and games of chance as it states:
The legislation was introduced by the Liberal Party under Howard in 2001.

You're right on the Act, it does not differentiate between skill and chance.

Subsequent reports by the Productivity Commission and the Department of Broadband have differentiated poker from other forms of online gambling.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:41 PM   #94
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Unless they decide it isn't worth their time and they can take a 'hard line' stance on gambling whilst ignoring the billions poured into bookies and clubs
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:59 PM   #95
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Sampler View Post
Subsequent reports by the Productivity Commission and the Department of Broadband have differentiated poker from other forms of online gambling.
That may be so but that still needs to be reflected in the legislation.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:05 AM   #96
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Are there any lobby groups/interest groups who we can write to and let them know online poker needs defending?
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:07 AM   #97
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Well I'm voting Labor. Blame the 52% of mongs who will probably give government to Abbott and his thugs.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:12 AM   #98
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by risk2Dupside View Post
ty for response; my comment about lobby money was really just a presumption that there are companies that fall under the banner of legal online gaming operators and do pay Australian income tax (Sportsbet, Betfair etc) that while not negatively impacted by the IGA, would at least be considered an 'interest group' with some lobbying input should its enforcement come under renewed focus and thus warrant a formal review of the legislation. If this is true I think it is important to clarify, as saying "online poker has no lobby group" may be misleading if it leads people to think a Liberal Government is likely to just flick the lights off because nobody cares.
Ah OK, I see what you mean. Yep, I believe these guys have advocated for online casino gambling (though I've never seen it in the media), though not poker specifically. But I've been told they have argued against 'foreign' companies like Poker Stars offering this service to Australians.

As I said, that lot seems to have far less sway than Clubs Australia, who have argued against online gaming.

As jakethedog has said, the Coalition can always appear hard on gambling by cracking down on online gaming, while ignoring the pokies.

Last edited by Royal Sampler; 08-29-2013 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:12 AM   #99
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

At this point Abbott is in, voting is meaningless.
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Old 08-29-2013, 12:18 AM   #100
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Re: Poker In Australia But For How Long?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakethedog View Post
Are there any lobby groups/interest groups who we can write to and let them know online poker needs defending?
Yeah the Australian Christian Lobby

This is if you feel so aggrieved write to your local Liberal member. But just don't say you don't want it to be axed for the hell of it - try to differentiate online poker from poker machines etc
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