lik im not sure what abbotts plans are re online poker,but it is a real possibility. and im sure stars would give notice if we needed to withdraw our funds.

Well the decision is up to you, and i honestly dont have that much time or really care about your money, im just suggesting something, because is there a real reason of keeping so much online? Just keep minimum

But do whatever you want



Dont think they would give warning, if they took down the sites, then banks and credit cards probably wouldnt process withdraws either, so might cause a little bit of inconvenience which i dont want

inconvenience = 1day, 1-3month? (if stars)
inconvenience = lose $$$ forever (if not stars - eg UB)

I don't really see withdrawals being a problem although I could be wrong.

AFAIK the issue with American players being unable to withdraw promptly after Black Friday is that accounts were frozen because sites were under indictment for money laundering and all player funds had been seized. Pokerstars sorted their legal issues out fairly quickly and as soon as they did US players were able to withdraw.

If poker is banned in Australia I imagine that legitimate operators like pokerstars will make an orderly withdrawal from the market and facilitate player payouts as quickly as possible. It's certainly not in the governments interest to have $x dollars sitting in a foreign companies off shore accounts when they could be being used productively in Australia so I don't see why they would create impediments to the returning of those funds to Australia.

Although, it may well be worth shooting an email off to pokerstars inquiring about their policies in this regard.

lol @ the amount of gimmick accounts posting ITT

I was just responding to your suggestion and not asking you to make decisions on my behalf.

Thanks @jellybelly and @dogarse.

I've joined the facebook group for this, but don't really see any real organisation (as in getting organised) as yet to target any future moves from the Federal govenment to ban online poker in Australia.

Short term we have to work out who to target in the Federal government/bureaucracy in order to get our position heard (I see someone's stated Malcolm Turnbull in the thread, which would actually be fantastic out of all the possibilities in the Cabinet).

Longer term we probably have to have some sort of lobby group, and if poker is banned (as in effectively banned) even establish a single-policy political party to target a Senate seat at the Federal level. I would not be surprised if Senate voting rules are changed as a result of this election, however if they aren't there is no reason why an Australian Poker Alliance party (or whatever name you want to call it) can't get a Senate seat if the Motorists Party and Clive Palmer can.

No the Senate voting rules will stay the same. However, if you are talking about how they are elected in the first place, it may change to optional preferential voting (just voting for the amount of candidates below the line that you want to vote for).

But the senate is irrelevant anyway, as the legislation is already in place and just needs to be enforced as you should know already.

Pretty damn obvious that this is what he was talking about.

That's obvious but the one sure way to get what you want is to have a seat in the Parliament, especially the Senate given that is where, traditionally (excepting the recent Gillard government), the ruling party in the House of Reps needs numbers to get legislation through.

I remember when Brian Harradine held the balance of power in the Senate - the amount of money he got for Tasmania was absurd; I can recall when the Democrats doomed themselves for eternity by lying down with the Liberal Party to get the GST through (and the Libs needed those numbers in the Senate). If you have a senate seat you have power. That's what makes Nick Xenophon so scary, because he is in the Senate and seems dead-set against online poker in this country. If Xenophon wants to get rid of online poker that is what will happen, given the Libs will likely need him to get other legislation through.

Its about having power - if you don't have it you are going to get run over, and unfortunately we are very much stuck in the middle of the road and in the headlights after the election result the other day.

Online poker in Australia is gone

Reasons why:

1. Its on the liberals current policies - which SPECIFICALLY mentions Online Poker (no grey area) ANDS ITS ALREADY ILLEGAL (IGA)

2. Most of Australian poker players are not doing anything about it, by contacting people in parliament and voicing their opinions

3. They think if you stay quiet it will go away (how when they spelt it out for you)


And like i said, if only people spent 30mins to write a letter or contact people like Malcolm turnbull, suggesting reasons why the IGA law needs to be changed

But it seems to me like people won't bother spending 30mins of their time and think it will all go away

So do nothing when already illegal, and on current policy mentioned that Online poker will be out of Australia (cannot be more clear than that)

Sorry but very thick - do people honestly think that they typo'ed in "Online Poker"

Its just a matter of when its going to happen

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

While we are at it can anyone think of any arguments other for online poker not stated in this thread?

I can think of one, actually a pretty good one, don't think its been mentioned here.

Banning people from playing online poker wont stop them from playing the game. What that means is that there will be a big spike in people playing live poker - one only has to look at the USA experience to back this fact up. And where will they play that poker? In pubs, clubs and casinos across the country - the same places chock full of gambling alternatives where the game is actually rigged against those who participate in them, namely pokies etc.

In the year 2012 USA casinos reported a 5% lift in revenue, despite the fact their economy was still moribund. This is the year after online poker was banned. Now you can't say definitively that that 5% was due to the banning of online poker, but it would have definitely been a big factor in those extra $ those casinos saw going through their establishments.

So far from stopping gambling, banning online poker in Australia will actually increase it - it will drive players to places where the game is rigged against them, where the entire setup has been established to fleece the ordinary person.

So, instead of Australian money shipped off to foreign owned corporations they'll be using it in Australia going to Australian pubs and casinos that pay tax revenue, taking buses and taxis there, buying drinks, food etcetera, possibly traveling from other cities or towns thus paying for hotel rooms... when you put it like that banning online poker sounds great.

To sum up, the government has no desire to curtail the profits of Australian bars, clubs and casinos. If anything the reverse is true that pointing out that banning online poker will increase the revenue of Australian businesses is kind of a self defeating argument.

I wouldn't have thought so given the well established fact that pokies (for one) are causing huge damage in the Australian community - do you really think the "moral" angle of the anti-online-poker stance would carry any weight if instead of decreasing gambling it would have the opposite effect? It's an argument that would definitely appeal to an indepedent like Wilkie, if not to those politicians in the pockets of the Australian Hotels Association (which is effectively both Labor and Liberal).

Are there any other arguments out there anyone can think of apart from the ones already covered? Surely have to be some more.

Im not sure if this has been said yet, but the senate that was voted in this year will begin duty in July next year, so at the moment the senate is being run by the Labor party . In a summary, online poker will be around until at-least next July.

It's already been established that no new laws need to be passed to ban online poker. It's only going to take the will of the government to enforce existing laws.

well with being that said, its looking pretty grim

Terrible argument.

Firstly it is not an established fact that any particular form of gambling causes greater harm. There are a few problem gamblers and they do have problems that cost them and their families dear but the thing is for them - better help and better self exclusion. Stopping any one form of gambling does nothing to help them at all. You have just swallowed an anti gambling line which is unsupported by the evidence. See pokie, bad pokie is not evidence. The evidence is that a degen gonna degen pretty much regardless of any ban - help and self exclusion/limits matter bans do not help.

Secondly, arguing that banning online gambling helps protect the casinos and state revenues is hardly news, why do you think the ban happened? Why do you think the act happened? It was not just a bit of red meat chucked to the antis it was a coalition of powerful lobby groups. Most supporters of the IGA have a financial interest in the legal gambling.

Thirdly, the main argument for online gambling and poker is one of freedom and civil liberties. It fits in to the free Internet movement, locks in some libertarians of both the left and the right to the cause but most importantly is RIGHT! I should as an adult be able to play 1c/2c poker over the internet with my gran just as I can across a kitchen table.

Anyway, please don't get sucked into the anti gambling/competitors myths about particular forms of gambling.

Problem Gamblers are stable in number - even in the face of new technologies. We have had the pokies and the rise of Internet gambling but the number of PG is stable, indeed some reports suggest a fall.

Internet Gambling offers better opportunities for self exclusion and easier warnings for potential problem gamblers, easier deposit and time limits set by the player. Essentially online the problem can be mitigated more readily if done properly. This means that tackling the pokies question put by the antis is not about condemning them ourselves, it is about how do you help problem gamblers instead?

An argument that poker can be +ev and the rest can't be - to distance poker from other gambling is a terrible argument on many levels.

Firstly 99% don't get your point at all. Of the other 1% who do most of them think that this makes it worse as it is other players exploiting the poor degenerate problem gambler so you as a winning poker player have the moral equivalence of the casino tycoon or pokie machine supplier, who they hate btw.

Secondly, throwing pokie users, suppliers, owners under the bus rather than having a coalition with them is just pushing away a larger potential group of supporters who value their freedoms and are sympathetic to gambling. Similarly, why set out to try and alienate the casino lobby and casino players?

This is not really a concern because a law banning online poker is already in place (it was passed several years ago by the Howard government I think). Also, even if the senate did matter, I'm pretty sure the Greens have said they want online gambling shut down and we all know Xenophon's stance which will give the anti gambling crew a pretty easy majority.

The issue is with the executive/government and enforcement. Previous governments have pretty much ignored the fact that online poker sites have offered services to Australians. In contrast, I believe the Abbott liberal party in opposition have expressly mentioned online poker and their desire to enforce the laws prohibiting.

As I've said earlier, online poker/gambling is a soft target for politicians who want to appease socially conservative voters without alienating Australia's major onshore gambling interests.

That's a fair retort but the problem is "libertarianism" just doesn't have the same traction it does in a place like, say, the USA. Australia doesn't even have civil liberties enshrined in any legislation, let alone constitutionally - obstensibly because the general electorate just doesn't give a rats arse. If that is the argument we are relying on we are on very thin ice. Libertarianism is caught in the very basis for why the USA exists - ie the fight against the British and their taxes. We still have the union jack in the corner of our flag and the English Queen is still our head of state.

And just to be clear I don't want to "win" any argument with any posters on here and am quite happy for anything I put up to be described as terrible. We need to have some cogent, solid arguments to fight any ban if/when it comes - if we are just fighting it on the "freedom" thing alone we wont really have a leg to stand on. We need to come up at least several other arguments else we are screwed.

Yeah, I hate that in the US they do not get that "libertarianism" is on a lot of issues what in the UK and Aus we call liberalism. The liberal sees legal restriction of the individual as justifiable in only limited circumstances - basically when it harms others, my freedom ends with my fist at the point of your nose (again sadly corrupted by the US, this time prohibitionists).

Essentially the I should be free to....argument is what it is about.

Well, I did do just that and this was there reply:

Hello xxxx,

Thank you for your email.

As always, we closely monitor regulatory developments in all markets from which we accept custom. Please be assured that we have no current plans to exit the Australian market. We will communicate all necessary information to our players should changes take place which might affect them directly.

Regardless of any future developments your funds are safe with us and they will always be made accessible to you should you want to withdraw them.

If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

Eddie
PokerStars Support Team

Hi,

I'm planning spending next winter in Down Under. How does it work in practice if I wanna destroy online poker while drinking my pilsner there (not talking about the strategy but the laws...)? Should I use proxys etcetc...?

If it is like it is currently you will have no issue with playing online poker in Australia, just watch this thread from time to time and if anything changes it will be posted here.

If you want it on your iPhone/iPad, install it before you get to the country. Otherwise as astro says, your experience will be unchanged.