the more decks used the bigger spread you need to beat the game.with that said generally speaking single and double deck games for example are watched more closely than 6 deck games. if you could actually get away with a 10x spread in a deeply cut double deck game you're in a great spot.

So if casinos use 6 decks and limit the x spread bet to 2 x or maybe 3 x, it feels from what you are saying that any card counter's edge would be almost completely eroded? Or be so tiny that variance would become a much bigger issue for counters so dissuade them from playing for fear of going bust.

There are some games which can be absolutely crushed either outside of vegas of even downtown like the single deck game at the el cortez or the double deck game the downtown grand, but yeah the games are watched closely so keep your sessions short the best approach is to hit it and quit it

A refund?

A poker tournament is a SERVICE offered by the casino, not a bet where the casino stood to make money from it. The buy in belongs to all the players in the tournament!

The most they can do is refund the rake or pay out of their own pocket when they severely screwed up. Given this guy knew he was banned he should expect none.

Counting, especially if you are able to make accurate side-counts (I focused on knowing exactly how many 8s, 9s, 5s, and Aces were left) also directs the decisions you make in play and not just in how much you increase or decrease your bet sizes.

A hi-lo count with accurate side-counts might direct you to play multiple spots or surrender 15 or 14 vs 10 or even 9 (or not surrender 16 v 10) or double 8 v 6 where you would not otherwise do so. The more decks used only means that favorable conditions happen less frequently, but when they do they (because of how many more cards are left) they last longer than in a one or two deck situation.

I have counted (with side counts) 8 deck shoes without an issue and often with more success as casinos are not looking at such shoes as hard as they would a one-deck game. As noted, the best game I ever played was a 2-deck all-cards-up game with player-favorable rules at the Luxor. I remember feeling it was a license to print money as I calculated my edge at that time with side-counts at over 6 percent.

Very, very interesting, thank you for the insights. Subtle math, that the more decks, the more potentially extreme favourable sequence of cards can occur, albeit less often. I also thought counting was illegal until seeing this thread and doing some reserach and never realised the scale on which it is going on.

Regarding the disqualification and confiscation of chips at the WSOP ME, there's a consensus ITT that the guy pushed things too far whereas posters ITT who count have demonstrated if you play things cool and are clever and not too greedy you can avoid what happened to him.

He is suing - says if they ley chips blind out, he would have cashed for $20K and had 9th chip stack at time of removal.

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...ambling-career

For those so interested in reviewing the case on PACER...

2:18-cv-01042-RFB-CWH filed in USDC- District of Nevada (Las Vegas) on June 08, 2018

Discovery due by 1/15/2019. Motions due by 2/14/2019. Proposed Joint Pretrial Order due by 3/18/2019.

"Moreover, to the extent that the Plaintiff is alleging that an
improper entry invalidates the entry (by alleging: “If these poker tournament contracts are void
due to a variation in my name on my entry, as Defendants claim, then they should be void from
the beginning.”), Defendants admit that allegation. "

(that is from the Answer filed by Caesars. Someone had fun clowning him as they worked on the pleadings...)

Side counts are a waste of time and mental energy, especially in multi deck. The gain is negligible and the increased risk of error, to say nothing of mental fatigue limiting the length of your sessions, is high.

Kind of what I was thinking too. He seems to really really like to create drama around himself.