it most definitely would have

Just for those who are not aware:

it may seem a bit weird for a player to be banned from playing a poker tournament based on being an advantage player at blackjack however id bet my life that he had been warned and asked to stop playing several (if not dozens) of times. Only after being repeatedly told to stop playing blackjack and refusing to stop would he have been "banned" from all caesars properties. After that point he ban is total and it doesn't matter whether he is there to play BJ, poker or just to get a feed or watch a show. He knew exactly what he was doing and the ramifications. luckily he didn't win the damn thing and then have the bracelet stripped from him as that would have been even worse

So let's just say, he wants to go into a restaurant which happens to be a casino to get one of those sandwiches that he likes?

If the bathrooms didn't have the problems they did and less people missed hands, that would've made a difference too.
Everything makes a difference, that's what the butterfly effect is.

Can't moan about it though.
Anyone who thinks they got knocked out earlier than they should've refuses to believe the fact that if he wasn't allowed to enter in the first place, they could've run quads into quads on the first hand.

Wholeheartedly agree but it just sucks for anyone he busted.

Yeah he would be trespassing by even stepping foot onto the property. Its quite possible he would go unnoticed by security if he is just going there for a meal and paying with cash... quite another thing if he tries to gamble or do anything that requires id or the use of his total rewards card.

This. But this wasn't just about blackjack, if you read his original thread (linked in the op), he didn't just get kicked out for his blackjack shenanigans, he went back repeatedly, got banned from various CET casinos, refused to leave when they tried to kick him out of a poker tournament (after he'd been 86'd prior), then continued to call and send letters demanding they lift the ban, then got an article published in a newspaper about himself, and threatened lawsuits against the casino. I'm not sure what exactly he was trying to sue for or if he ever went through with the legal action, but yeah, this guy did everything possible to ensure the maximum possible retaliation when he tried to play the WSOP. Also I believe they told him several times (because he kept asking) that no, he wasn't allowed back, not even to play tournaments.

I don't see him starting threads and threatening lawsuits this time because he knows he has no legal standing to fight this. It sucks for him that it happened so deep in the tournament, but he was definitely aware that it could happen at any time, regardless of how many tournaments he had been able to play with his fake rating card before the main event.

Just skimming the thread, but I have thoughts:

Casinos may or may not eject people for the right or "wrong" reasons.

However they ejected this guy.

This guy continued to play poker tournaments despite being banned. That is or at least seems pretty idiotic, I would contend. Therefore it is much more likely than usual that banning this fine fellow was the correct decision in the first place.

Just point of clarification, as the recipient of the ban treatment he would absolutely have the legal standing to attempt to fight it, however he may have ZERO merits under the law to prevail. I think this is probably what you meant, that he has no merits at all to prevail even if he chose to fight.

Yes i agree it seems he went out of his way to ensure that he is no longer welcome. I've been told to "flat bet" or asked to stop playing for card counting at several places before and its never cone close to being read the trespass act or being banned. As long as you don't make a total nuisance of yourself they will go through the whole charade several times over before it gets more serious than just being asked not to play blackjack. Of course there are things which you can do that escalate proceedings... But yeah.

He def would have known that his identity would have come to light had he made the final table so he was effectively playing a tournament where 10th place was his ceiling.

why is this even up for debate?

this guy was banned from the casino so he decided to use someone elses identity to play. The dude should just be thankful all that happened was confiscation of his chips and 10k. Im sure he couldve served jail time for this especially when it comes to a las vegas casino

Actually he used his own identity, either inserting his middle name, or deleting his middle name, or trying to pass off his middle name as his surname. It was some play on his middle name anyway lol.

this guy is putting on an amazing clinic on what not to do when you get caught counting cards- especially for someone who wants to play poker the at same properties. don't **** where you eat.

Oh please give me a break.

I dunno. If you're banned from a casino, maybe don't go to that casino to play in the biggest, longest, and most publicized event in the gambling world?

agreed i buy his side of the story

Ok sure. My point is he tried to appear as someone other than himself.

Exactly this. The only thing that is missing from this situation is fist pumping while confiscating his stack and 10k

Others have answered this but I'll chime in as well. During all of 2015 through part of 2016 I lived in Vegas and was eventually banned from playing blackjack at nearly every casino in the city for counting. In most cases they simply told me I wasn't allowed to play blackjack, but I was still welcome on the property to play other games. I continue to play poker with absolutely no issues, which included a trip a couple of weeks ago to play in WSOP events.

The only exception to that is the SLS, which completely trespassed me from the property in May of 2015. That's because I lived across the street at the time and would go there regularly. After I got backed-off from playing once, I returned about a month later with a good-looking hooker (but not dressed like one, you'd never know) to sit with me and try to distract the floor staff by kinda flirting with them as I played. It worked for a while, but when the deck ran hot when I had max bets out they realized what was happening and backed me off again.

I didn't play for about 3 months, but after having dinner there one evening, I gave into temptation. I was only about $700 up after 20 min, when a floor manager appeared with an entourage of 5 security guards. They told me I'd be arrested if I ever set foot on the property again and escorted me out.

I'll also add that many casinos are using facial recognition and it seems to work pretty well. I went to one off-strip locals casino which I had never set foot in before, and sat down at a blackjack table. I played maybe 3 hands (min-bets) before a manager appeared and backed me off. And no, of course I never used a player's card nor showed my ID.

I have been barred for winning in over 30 casinos, if you get banned, you can try to fool them by wearing a wig or change of clothing/going with a girl etc and it works only for sometime till they remember you, till you win a decent amount or till you get their attention in any other way. What this guy did is ridiculous. He cant just show up and think that he wouldnt get caught. Dont pity for him! He was warned many times. Oh and Pr-promotion employees has no idea who is banned or not.

This is fortunately the case. In fact even though im not allowed to play blackjack at any caesars properties i would have zero trouble having my own VIP host and a free room comped for a week at any time of the year. It's almost as if theres zero communication within different organisational levels of the casino.

The other thing is that when they stop you from playing they will never give you an explicit reason ie. Card counting. The closest I got to being given an explanation was by the caesars VP at the Flamingo one night. He told me that my rating in BJ was way too high. When i asked what that meant he explained that it meant my winnings had been tracked and exceeded what is statistically within the realms of what is considered normal variance.

So basically that means anyone who wins "too much" percentage wise in a game that can be beaten will not be welcome to play further regardless of how they won due to either skill or blind luck lol

This is what I wrote at the time on my site when this guy first created a thread about the situation in 2015, more than 2 years before this year's WSOP:

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So here's my reaction to the whole thing:

First off, there's no doubt that Horseshoe Baltimore handled the matter poorly. For those of you that don't know, being "asked to leave" from a casino is different from being barred. When you're asked to leave, you are not committing a crime by coming back (though, honestly, you should know you're not welcome and stop coming there anyway.)

Furthermore, kicking him out of the tournament and refusing to refund his buyin was especially bad form, especially since it had nothing to do with cheating in the poker tournament (or anywhere for that matter), and even if he was already barred, they knowingly let him register. The fact that the Maryland Gaming Commission had to force the Horseshoe to refund his buyin was really shameful, and it looks like the Horseshoe was trying to straight up steal from him (for purposes of being vindictive, in my opinion).

BUT...

WTF is wrong with this guy?

He was clearly asking for trouble.

Let's look at the important parts of the timeline:

12/19/14: He was kicked out of the Horseshoe "for no reason" while playing blackjack. Uh huh. More like they caught him card counting, and sent him home.

12/27/14: Eight days later he tries to return and play a poker tournament there. He doesn't check with anyone if they're okay with him doing so. I mean, he just got thrown out of the place the prior week, and they wouldn't provide him with a reason. Why didn't he simply ask them prior to registering for the tournament if he was allowed to return and play?

1/4/15: Again, eight days later, he returns to the Horseshoe! This time it's even more ridiculous for him to do so, as they had made it clear just 8 days earlier that he was barred from all Caesars properties. His excuse? He received marketing offers in the mail from the Horseshoe with freeplay coupons.

Now let's stop right here.

Anyone who has been around modern casinos in the last 15 years knows that the marketing department is always about 2 months behind. That is, your offers today tend to be based upon what you did 2 months ago, NOT what you did last week. So if you play in the high roller section and throw around a ton of money, the marketing department won't send you those nice freeplay coupons until 2 months later. And, on the flip side, if you get yourself barred from the casino, you will still receive those offers for 2 months. In fact, sometimes those offers won't stop at all, because the marketing department isn't always connected well with security/barring records.

Is this stupid? Yes. Is it ridiculous that, in our instantaneous, wired world of 2015, the casino marketing departments are so poorly connected and delayed? Yes.

But did this guy honestly believe that receiving a freeplay coupon a few days after being barred from Caesars properties was somehow their way of inviting him back?

Certainly not. This guy is not some noob gambler from the midwest. This is someone who supports himself gambling, and took the time to learn how to count cards at blackjack. This was no naive sucker. He knew exactly what he was doing when he walked through those doors of the Horseshoe on January 4. He knew he was directly violating their trespass warning, and thought he was clever with his marketing offers, figuring that he had found a loophole.

It has been known in advantage play circles for at least 15 years (maybe more) that you are supposed to ignore marketing offers if you've been barred from a property.

1/9/15: Just five days later, he returns again!

Obviously the dude just wants to keep challenging the Horseshoe. He wants to test whether he can keep showing back up with those $475 freeplay coupons, probably both because he wants to redeem them and he just feels like being a pain in the ass.

For good measure, he went back once again on February 27!

Anyway, after being the biggest nuisance possible for the Horseshoe, of course Caesars eventually gives him (and upholds) the ultimate penalty of a complete barring from all properties, including the WSOP.

Had he simply been barred for counting cards at blackjack once, and then found himself out of the WSOP, I would be the first person screaming to have him reinstated.

Instead, the guy knowingly entered a foolish game of chicken with Horseshoe Baltimore regarding his "right" to be there, and he lost.

He pretty much made his own bed with this one.

Not that Horseshoe Baltimore handled this well, because there were several alarming parts of the story, and I think I believe most of his accounts of what happened. However, even from this guy's own version of events, he is not deserving of our sympathies, and in my opinion, he finally reaped what he sowed.


---------------------


So back to the present:

This guy made his own bed.

Had he simply been banned for counting and tried to sneak back in the WSOP, I would have some sympathy for him.

Instead, he played an obnoxious cat-and-mouse game with the casino, repeatedly got caught, and pretty much drew their ire for life.

Once you attempt that and lose, there's no going back.

"You've made your bed, now lie in it" is especially appropriate here.

No one get a kicked out of a casino for suspected card counting if it's the first time. It's more like he had been told that they didnt want his action in blackjack and he continued to go back several times and after a few times of "reminding" him they decided to kick him out. Seems that still didnt register so they gave him a permanent ban which he still apparently dodnt take seriously. Guy has only himself to nlame

ha i remember a million years ago at the hilton ac first being told "your style of play doesn't warrant any comps" before they half shoed me (in ac they can't ban you for counting) I was spreading something like 5-75 and they had like 3 or 4 pit bosses following me from table to table telling the dealers to cut the shoe in half. i had to kill an hour or two before my bus out and it was fun wasting their time and costing them money they would be winning from other customers.

So if your buddy is a huge seven star player and you are 86'd, can he help get you back in? Does it really work like that? I would think yes, as long as you aren't banned for violence.

Ah ha, just read up a bit on card counting and it's beatable by a fraction of a percentage point even with level stake bets? But I assume being able to suddenly make the bet 4 x or 10 x bigger is very important to a counter.

N.B. I would be uncomfortable being a card counter, it is not for me.