Phil Ivey wins 7.3m GBP in London, casino refuses to pay. Ivey sues. Loses Case. Appeals. Loses - Page 30 - Poker News

^^ Just to add to that my FD used to work for Crockford's. He was there 5 years+ (obviously back-office as opposed to a croupier or bar man or whatever).

He told me a story just today about how during a one week period, some high-rolling greek gambler almost cleaned them out. he had big wins on several consecutive nights. The casino was at the point where they could not afford for him to come back and win on yet another night. They just did not have the cash to pay. He did not come back again.

Casinos tend to rely on winners hanging around and donating it back, but in this instance all the senior staff were just hugely relieved that he didn't show up again. Casino basically happy to cut their losses! Theperils of variance...!

11-10-2012 , 01:21 AM

#727

sunno

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 203

Did Ivey get paid?

11-10-2012 , 09:37 AM

#728

skateb

adept

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 711

I wonder how much tip the dealer got...if she didn't get 50,000 euro then he's really cheap....god I wish I was the dealer that game

11-10-2012 , 09:47 AM

#729

super_dave31

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,223

Quote:

Originally Posted by never fade

The return of Archie Karas?

11-10-2012 , 10:25 AM

#730

BlackStar9

banned

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 783

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallawayKM

Ivey's manager is Irv Gotti. If you have a brain that is all you need to know. If you dont...ignorance is bliss.

sauce or die

11-10-2012 , 06:20 PM

#731

LancyHoward

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 427

Quote:

Originally Posted by skateb

I wonder how much tip the dealer got...if she didn't get 50,000 euro then he's really cheap....god I wish I was the dealer that game

Let me get this straight. He only got his buy-in back, but, he should have given away 50,000 euro's?

11-10-2012 , 10:36 PM

#732

superkewli

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 537

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...d-rock-244388/

11-13-2012 , 04:10 PM

#733

fatshaft

token Scotsman

Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,602

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hall

I read this thread in the beginning and jumped to last page. This type of hit means nothing to Genting. Racism, come on, Phil Ivey is well known to Genting (and every other casino in the world) as a high roller and racism has nothing to do with this issue. So much comment and speculation here from the likes of dgiharris here. raidalot is closest to what probably may have happened.

To be clear I am not accusing anybody of anything as it will hinge around what rules were agreed between the players and casino at time of play and I am not an expert on UK gaming legislation. This is where I believe the grey area exists and nothing finite has happened (or may ever happen).

Interesting there are no comments from land based casino operators here (guess they don't find their way onto 2+2) as there are ways to manipulate games like punto banco or for casinos to lose their edge if they are not paying attention. I recall being told of a similar incident occuring in both an Asian and European casino over 30 years ago by an old pit boss with exactly the same scenario, cards not being touched during the main punto banco session, cameras everywhere, no manipulation or marking of cards (electronic surveillance tech did not exist in those days for a potential cheater). How was the house edge beaten?

Relatively simple, the player and casino agreed to use the same shoe (same decks of underlying cards for the session), the same shoe was used briefly previously for standard session with player handling cards. Player hadn't marked the cards, only slightly squeezed certain cards bending them ever so slightly. For the main session, player didn't touch cards but was not required to bet on player/banker until after the cards were dealt, he then decided what to bet. As the same cards were being used time and time again (as opposed to new cards being used), the player had certain points when he knew the value of cards (as he had squeezed certain cards in certain way) and a very narrow house edge went the other way. It usually required a relatively long session for this to be effective. There were several variations of this, even when the player had never touched the cards that could be exploited if the same card decks were used throughout and the player was not required to bet until after cards were dealt (go and speak to an experienced real casino pit boss if you doubt what I am relating here). In the modern day where auto shufflers or constant changing of decks are standard, this would not be possible, but who knows what may have happened recently.

Having been around this industry a long time, you should not assume that maths/probability are the only factors here. Just_a_guy is correct that bacarrat house edge cannot be beaten in normal circumstances (without either casino error or manipulation), whereas BJ can be beaten in certain circumstances.

As an ex-casino person, I can categorically state, without even knowing anyone involved, this never happened in a UK casino.

11-13-2012 , 04:31 PM

#734

CallawayKM

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 243

Quote:

sauce or die

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallawayKM

Ivey's manager is Irv Gotti. If you have a brain that is all you need to know. If you dont...ignorance is bliss.

You know what I am glad you called me out on this. I had it wrong here and I have known for a while. His manager was Irv Gottis brother, Chris "Gotti" Lorenzo, which doesnt change things much in my opinion but still a relevant fact.

These were the guys who were managing Jeffrey Atkins et al at Murder Inc which was an interesting company.

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/phil-i...magazine-5958/

WTF is the deal with this story anyways? Did he get paid or what? I have lost sleep over this injustice on more than one night.

Last edited by CallawayKM; 11-13-2012 at 04:42 PM.

11-14-2012 , 01:33 AM

#735

donniccolo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 6,141

I am also having a hard time catching my zees.

11-14-2012 , 03:02 PM

#736

Leif

stranger

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 10

Baccarat games in casinos in the US and UK now tend to use an 'Angel' shoe and special 'Angel' cards that can be 'read' as they come out of the shoe.

Apparently if these Angel cards get used over and over again, they become slightly translucent and readable. In other words an experienced and sharp-eyed player can see through the cards.

Ivey asked for the same deck to be used over and over again 'for luck' even though he was originally losing. They agreed.

He then persuaded the casino to deal out the first two Player and Banker cards BEFORE he placed his bets. They agreed.

Now do the Math...

Clever boy...

I doubt any pit boss or casino manager in the world could have been so incompetent and for that alone they should pay up IMO.

As for Ivey.... you decide

11-14-2012 , 11:58 PM

#737

KatoKrazy

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4,533

Even if that is true so what? The casino agreed to the terms and it certainly isn't cheating.

11-15-2012 , 04:05 AM

#738

raidalot

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,182

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leif

Ivey asked for the same deck to be used over and over again 'for luck' even though he was originally losing. They agreed.

He then persuaded the casino to deal out the first two Player and Banker cards BEFORE he placed his bets. They agreed.

Source?

11-15-2012 , 08:35 AM

#739

synth_floyd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 7,074

Maybe Ivey read Exhibit CAA: Beyond Counting.

11-18-2012 , 11:29 AM

#740

mrmixitup

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 557

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leif

Apparently if these Angel cards get used over and over again, they become slightly translucent and readable. In other words an experienced and sharp-eyed player can see through the cards.

I've never played a high limit baccarat game where they re-used the cards.

11-18-2012 , 12:06 PM

#741

WasWilly

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 87

Did he ever get Paid?

11-18-2012 , 05:59 PM

#742

LancyHoward

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 427

Did this ever really happen?

11-19-2012 , 12:19 AM

#743

donniccolo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 6,141

I hope they pay him and he just turns around and puts it all on black

11-19-2012 , 06:53 PM

#744

2bad4u

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 676

Quote:

Originally Posted by donniccolo

I hope they pay him and he just turns around and puts it all on black

11-26-2012 , 10:25 PM

#745

PokerAnnie32

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 372

Anybody know whether this story was ever confirmed, and if true, whether or not the casino finally paid up? Just curious.

11-27-2012 , 12:01 AM

#746

Daboia

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30

Also curious as to if this was ever resolved. Never heard much else about it -

11-27-2012 , 12:27 AM

#747

onemoretimes

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 3,535

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2bad4u

I swear they make roulette wheels slightly biased for red because of this movie.

11-27-2012 , 08:47 AM

#748

FUrake

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,640

hahaha that film is on tv in the uk minimum 3 times a month

12-17-2012 , 06:23 PM

#749

LancyHoward

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 427

Is this all BS?

12-17-2012 , 06:43 PM

#750

Jigsaw

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,308

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2bad4u

Unless you're talking about not paying taxes:

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...8#.UM-gEI6L9PQ

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