It is well known that there are a few people who have an edge at craps under the right conditions, but not with a magic-money-betting system.

This is so well known that casinos occasionally bar people from playing.

Something for you to research..

thanks for posting on here to tell someone to do research rather than just providing the info yourself. it is well known these are the best kinds of posts

Since thread has been derailed. Mind as well add this roulette "tip" I heard.

Was playing poker a couple of weeks ago at the casino. Ended up chatting it up with this 20 something right next to me. Casual convo, about travel, his military background, etc. Anyway, he starts telling me about his routine at the casino. Don't remember exact order, but he'll go play Baccarat, Blackjack, Craps and then Roulette everytime he visits.
Anyhow, for roulette he tells me he always plays the dozen bets (pays 2-1). Either 1-12, 13-24, 25-36 or the columns, and always bets 2 out of the 3 (giving him close to 66% odds of hitting less the percentage you deduct for the zeros.) And iirc, he normally bets only after the wheel has spun or certain times of the day/week. Cause supposedly from what he was told by his mother who happens to also be a roulette dealer herself. That on certain nights (usually the busy nites Fri,Sat), they have these roulette dealers he calls "killers" (normally found in the highstakes room), that can basically put the ball within 2 or 3 spots of where they want on the wheel. And by him betting after the wheel has spun, they can't mess with his bets or go after him.
And according to him, most roulette dealers including his mother who he saids has fat fingers is able to put the ball into a general area of the wheel.
Not sure, how true this is, but hopefully someone can shed some knowledge on this.

I never heard or thought of that before.. It sounds perfectly reasonable to me..

Our brains and senses are a lot faster than our conscious thoughts,.. faster than any computer.

The feel of the ball in your finger tips... the view of the wheel spinning.. Given enough practice and some natural dexterity, it's probably little different than driving a ball down the middle of a fairway.

It would be 0% true hth

Pics of mother?

just sitting here, killing time until the end of the world.. had the urge to look this up.

So i search google for 3 words.. roulette dealer skill ... and a bunch of things appear. Pros and cons about the possibility that dealers can section-shoot a roulette wheel.

but this youtube video got me. It's like 10 minutes long. I'll only post the link because I dunno if the whole thing ends up on a 2+2 server (or not) when it's actually coded, thus wasting space..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKdOvQjJ8TE

I only watched the first 3 minutes or so, and skipped through the rest, but (almost) every time the ball drops, it leaves the track and hits the wheel at around 12 to 3 o'clock. The upper right quarter section of the wheel.

I'm not a roulette player and am not exactly sure what this is all about. They show some numbers to avoid betting at the beginning?
My sound was off.. dunno if there's any verbal information...

Weak dealers can be targeted in a few of the games

It is possible for a croupier to hit a sector with enough reliability to make betting that sector profitable.

The house does not do this, they don't need to. The pit bosses and the cameras are watching the croupier far more than they are watching some guy dropping chips after they say no more bets.

If you bet sectors and win they look at croupier not you.

I don't mind doing research, however not in the case of "is there a legal way to beat craps" because I already know that answer.

Casinos can ban anyone they want, but if they do so its not because someone can beat craps. There are a plethora of reasons, but this is not one of them.

Just took a look at that video. It is pretty crazy how accurate he is with where he is dropping the ball (3'o clock spot), but even if he does get the ball to land where he wants. Don't think it's possible to predict the spin of the inside wheel where the numbers are spinning which makes it harder to predict which set of numbers the ball is dropping on.
Don't even know if what I said even makes sense. lol
Btw- think there is another video made by the same people, roulette dealers signature. That's pretty interesting as well.

The ability to see and follow the 00, and then fire the ball at just the right instant doesn't seem too difficult to master..

a/dglnkakjfbawkjfebwakj;fa;fb;asdfbasdf;a holy **** you cannot be serious

Just to add fuel to the fire

Casinos are usually overly cautious but I'm always surprised by how stupidly confident those who aren't putting up the money are with regards to the impossibility of the improbable. Anybody who's really made it in gambling for a long period knows there are spots you can't explain but just need to walk away from anyway.

the ball bounces around though. Like the reason why craps tables have jagged walls and they try to insist you hit the wall.

yeah thought these guys would still be up the mountain waiting for the mayan spaceships.

A friend of mind referred me to your post. I sometimes play roulette for fun, nothing big, pretty much grinding free drinks while waiting buddies, etc.

I have this 'funny' story that happened to me in Australia, in 2009.

I was waiting for friends to go out, and hit up a roulette while doing so, I sat at a table where I was the only guy playing, the dealer was a very friendly women. I loaded up 200$ and played 10$ a piece on the colors, just for fun.

We started talking and all, she learned I was from Canada and she always wanted to go to Canada, so we talked about that, she also had a son pretty much my age and we talked about that, we were pretty much having fun and had been playing alone for maybe 15 minutes. I got a semi-heater, was up maybe 200$ playing mainly 10$ and 20$ bets.

Then I started losing like 4-5 in a row, we were still chating, and still having fun, she was really nice to me and I am a pretty nice person myself so all was good. I also explained to her I was only here waiting for friends, was a poker player and not a gambler, came for poker, etc etc.

I started martingale a little, 25$ bets, 40$ bets, kept losing. I was pretty much back at even or slightly losing, still only playing the colors, we had been playing for like 20ish minutes now, always alone.

She then told me, "You never play the green??, you should green hits often", I replied, "naah, just betting the colors, I don't really do the green" ...

She then spins and the green hits. She doesn't say a word, just a little smile like 'told yah'.

I prepare my bet again, colors again, she tells me (and this is where I think I was a huge fish) : "You know, when the green hits once, it hits again very often"

Once again, being the immature canadian kid playing for fun, I replied : "Hehe, yaah but, meeh, I just bet red and black, you know, just having fun"

She replied : "But green pays a lot!"

I replied : I know i know...

And she then re-binked the green.


This story is true, with the dialogues probably being a little different but same idea. She didn't say a word after the second green binked, no smile, no nothing, it was a bit of a ackward moment. We then played 1 more hand after this and she didn't say a word either before the hand either, felt as if she already 'said' too much. It was her rotation, I tipped her good even tho I was stuck and said good bye, she said thank you, nice to meet you and everything.


I have talked about this story many times (not lately, since it's 2009), most people tell me it's variance/luck but in the context I simply cannot believe it is.

What are the odds of us being alone at the roulette, us being very friendly to each other and opening up about how it is back home, etc etc. Chatting and having fun. With this context, and then being said twice in a subtil way that something is gonna bink (and being braindead and not listening obv), and seeing it happen, right before the shift change?

I honestly think she tried to make me hit and I was just too stupid to listen. So I am a believer in the dealers that can bink something easily (maybe closer to a 2-3 number spread range then an actually number for most of them).

Anyway, what do you think? Simply coincidence or she tried to cheat for me?

btw, even tho I explained this story pretty much exactly the same way I just did, most people I talked to believe it's simply a coincidence. Wish it had happened to them ! See what they would of thought about all this.

It must be this one?


He releases the ball when the 0 is on the far side of the table, but other than that, I don't see any effort to target a spot.
The ball release is just consistent.
I suppose it's like snapping your fingers.

Coming off the track, the ball often hits a metal blocker, but that doesn't have much effect on where it ends up. It bounces a bit as the wheel carries it along, but it doesn't retain enough momentum to fly away to some other wheel quadrant.

Cliffs on the outcome to story?

Did the man get his money ?

Link to external news source ?

Yep, that's why they bet on a quarter of the wheel. Now if they can hit that quarter of the wheel half the time its very +ev

He also spins the inner wheel in the counter direction, the technique of releasing the ball in relation to the green zero relies on the wheel being spun at a consistent speed and the ball being released at a consistent speed.

It would seem to be so.. But there may be some room for adjustments...
I'm thinking a good hitter, like Barry Bonds, can detect slight differences in the speed of the ball, and adjust his swing to match it.

Maybe the dealer's arm movement is the "fine tuning" mechanism of the release.
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I guess these videos are trying to show there is such a thing as a dealer signature? You walk into a casino and search for a dealer who has a definite release.. and take advantage of that.
But to be honest, this looks like it's deliberate. He's somehow aiming at a spot.

ffs there is no frigging way roulette dealers can control where a ball lands. For a start there are usually several different weighted balls used. The numbered wheel is moved in different directions and different speeds and the point that they start the ball spin changes.

Casinos around the world are happy to spread roulette and I have not heard of any dealer being convicted of collusion/cheating with a punter using this method and if controlling where the ball would land was possible, it would happen often.