yup- prosecutors would need to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he cheated, which would be extremely difficult without video evidence etc, esp. considering such gains could easily be expected with how much he was gambling. This kinda brings to attention how absurd the whole concept of reasonable doubt is in the face of statistical data, since there is no consensus on what percentage it is- heard 80 percent before from law professor but that sounds incredibly off.

Again, they don't need to show he made money or even improved his chance of making money. If you read the thread you will find the law, oh hell here it is AGAIN...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/19/section/42

On the other hand though, British juries love an underdog, and tend to dislike bookmakers and casinos, who they see as legally fleecing punters due to their built-in edge.

I don't think a jury finding for Crockfords is anything like the certainty you present it as here. Though that's somewhat regionally dependent. Southerners tend to embrace authority, while out in the regions, we aren't quite so keen.

I have not presented it as a certainty. Bookies and Casinos in the UK are not loved but they are not seen as immoral or wrong, nor are they linked in the culture to organised crime. Casinos are seen as aristocratic places where honour and politeness are paramount. Our casino tradition is posh places run by aristos for aristos not mob fronts.

The english people I know would see hat Ivey did as cheating. They and them like them are the jury. As I sid IF (and I don't think it will) it went to jury trial he would go down (assuming the video backs the casino account).

Judges like tax paying local businesses more than they like foreigners coming into their country and performing acts that fall under cheating by their legal standards. They weren't sure what Ivey was doing before he left but they suspected something so with held his cash out. It's not necessarily so certain he isn't arrested if he comes back. I'm sure his lawyers would be aware if there's something filed and waiting for him. It depends on how far Crockfords takes this. They weren't afraid to release a statement saying he cheated. They also weren't afraid to tell him he wasn't getting his proceeds.

Thanks. But you have to understand that there are a bunch of Ivey nutthuggers and people who refuse to see this case from a British perspective ITT. Under your laws he cheated and is unlikely to gain sympathy from English courts. People need to put aside THEIR perspective and start to realize that.

if the costs on some sites page says its 50 to cashout to neteller, then its so. the typo makes no difference as thats what it cost to me as customer.

Nothing to add except that no one but C.S. Forester wrote the Hornblower books.

Oops that Hornblower vs Aubrey/Maturin - "Master and Commander" short circuit in my brain is still there then. Damn those pesky Napoleonic era set naval novels of my childhood.

very strange behavior on the part of the casino.

Would a jury be used for this case? It's not a criminal trial but a civil case of Ivey suing the casino. In that case wouldn't it just be a judge who decides

Indeed, I think there's only libel left where you have a right to a jury trial in UK civil litigation.

It'd depend strictly on the judges interpretation of the evidence.

One of the key things about the British court system is -- unlike the USA, trials tend to be fought in the courts, not in the media.

Under our laws, we've seen no evidence whatsoever as yet, so we're really unable to make any determination one way or another.

People need to stop being so dimwitted and start to realize that.

People also need to stop being so dimwitted and realize this thread is news, views, and gossip. By law.

are there real chances that he win this case in court and get his money?

No real news I am afraid so park the popcorn.

I was looking at the total casino yield figures for the UK. They were (for the 146 casinos) £739.19m from casino games in the year ending March 2012. (The latest figures we have for a full year - the to end March 2013 figures are due very soon).

£739.19m / 146 = £5.06m total casino table game yield per UK casino (they have some machine stuff too but a lot less than in the US as a proportion due to limits on them).

Now I expect Crockfords is an above average casino for yield (Genting has 44 in the UK BTW) but I am happy setting the line on the total anticipated annual yield for Crockfords for table games (includes everything but machines) at about......£7.3m.

I wonder if Crockfords will want to settle for losing their entire casino table game revenues for a year (revenues not profits!) to someone they think cheated?

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk...%202012v18.pdf

I agree that something is fishy - I don't think Crockfords could afford the action they were taking from Phil - and now they can't afford to pay him. I mentioned this story to a person who was born & raised in London and he had never even heard of Crockfords.

Crockfords is a very old private casino, you can't just walk in, almost none of my friends have heard of it. There are a lot of small casinos in Mayfair like this that people won't have heard of. These are casinos with maybe 8 tables total Inc roulette bj baccarat etc.

As for them not affording the hit..... They are owned by genting.....

Fair points.

Whomever runs Ivey's FB account linked this sympathetic article: http://www.cigaraficionado.com/blogs/show/id/17076

I agree with the point that they had an opportunity to change decks... and didn't. Pay the man.

Huge payouts are usually still within the payout ratio for the casino, why gather publicity, negative publicity, trying to increase their margin by a fraction of a percentage? Pay the guy..

Any publicity is good publicity. If everything was legit except the casino's cards where flawed by the manufacturer pay the man his money. It is not his fault your game gave him an edge because you didn't follow at least 2 of your rules and it gave him an edge.

Pay the man already!

let him get his cheese

This is supposedly what went down.

http://bonuscodepoker.com/ivey-accus...sing-dark-arts