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Old 08-17-2010, 09:50 PM   #16
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

If you think about it, by enforcing this rule, you are really only punishing the people who never had the intent to collude.
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:52 PM   #17
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

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Originally Posted by RML604 View Post
lol, then what exactly are the rules there for?

"Sorry boys, this hand I think i'm gonna play 2 pair beats a flush."
You can play the hand that way if you want. Doesn't mean you're gonna win, but if that's your thought process, it's up to you.
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:54 PM   #18
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

This thread is about poker right?
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Old 08-17-2010, 09:58 PM   #19
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

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Originally Posted by costanza_g View Post
What if the board is AKQJT rainbow...you hold K6s, you have the nuts, should you bet?
I have actually succeeded in getting an opponent to fold online in 2max cash,
doing just this [one other opponent called, medium-size pot for 2max].
Especially in a live game, late @ night, when given the opportunity in this situation, OPEN, AND OPEN HUGE, esp. w/ multiple opponents, when one of em might be drunk, half asleep, or just plain not paying attention.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:14 PM   #20
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

if u check behind with the nuts on the river you are either retarded or colluding
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:15 PM   #21
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

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if u check behind with the nuts on the river you are either retarded or colluding
Not against the rules to be retarded.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:16 PM   #22
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

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Originally Posted by Geniius View Post
To penalize someone in this situation is very level 1 thinking. Supposedly the reason they enforce this rule is to prevent collusion. Let's examine this claim.

Situation 1: Penalty is enforced, thus nuts are always bet -

OOP player checks, guy with the nuts bets, OOP folds, guy with the nuts mucks his hand, no one ever knows what either player had... they might have been colluding. We will never know.

Situation 2: Penalty does not exist, nuts are checked -

OOP player checks, guy with the nuts checks and flips over his hand. Players at the table can request to see the OOP hand, and thus can analyze the cards with the board along with the action to judge if collusion is occurring.

In addition to this logical deduction of why the collusion theory doesn't hold water, there are other reasons to check the nuts. Heck, even mucking the nuts could make sense in order to keep a short stack in the game longer, thus nut-mucker can abuse the bubble more. The biggest argument for abolishing this rule is simply so that the person with the nuts, who knows he will not get paid, can request to see his opponents mucked hand, rendering the information from his opponent more valuable that the % of the time that he is called down with an inferior hand.
[ ] logical deduction
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:28 PM   #23
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

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[ ] logical deduction
[ ] logical deduction
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:29 PM   #24
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

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Originally Posted by Geniius View Post
To penalize someone in this situation is very level 1 thinking. Supposedly the reason they enforce this rule is to prevent collusion. Let's examine this claim.

Situation 1: Penalty is enforced, thus nuts are always bet -

OOP player checks, guy with the nuts bets, OOP folds, guy with the nuts mucks his hand, no one ever knows what either player had... they might have been colluding. We will never know.

Situation 2: Penalty does not exist, nuts are checked -

OOP player checks, guy with the nuts checks and flips over his hand. Players at the table can request to see the OOP hand, and thus can analyze the cards with the board along with the action to judge if collusion is occurring.

In addition to this logical deduction of why the collusion theory doesn't hold water, there are other reasons to check the nuts. Heck, even mucking the nuts could make sense in order to keep a short stack in the game longer, thus nut-mucker can abuse the bubble more. The biggest argument for abolishing this rule is simply so that the person with the nuts, who knows he will not get paid, can request to see his opponents mucked hand, rendering the information from his opponent more valuable that the % of the time that he is called down with an inferior hand.
Hey Einstein, It is clear you have never played live with Men the Master with 3 of his buddies at the same table..
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:40 PM   #25
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

OP - You actually do have a point...but I think the player who does this can present the argument that he didn't think he was going to get called and wanted to force the opponent to show if that was really his intent (or for shortstack/bubble purposes somehow too).

I have to think the reason they have the rule is because most of the time such situations happen is because there was some weird attempt to soft-play involved. But it certainly isn't a case where the rule itself means that collusion is never taking place in such situations and I think that is a weird assertion to make.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:47 PM   #26
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

"Heck, even mucking the nuts could make sense in order to keep a short stack in the game longer"

oh my
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:48 PM   #27
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

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Originally Posted by costanza_g View Post
What if the board is AKQJT rainbow...you hold K6s, you have the nuts, should you bet?
If it is a cash game, there should be a mandatory shove rule so that as much money as possible gets raked or else you get fined 100bbs.
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:21 PM   #28
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

WSOP Rule 37.

The competitive integrity of all Tournament play at the World Series of Poker is paramount. All participants must adhere to the spirit and letter of the Official Rules of the WSOP which forbid play or any action that is illegal, unethical or constitutes cheating or collusion in any form.

i. Cheating is defined as any act a person engages in to break the established rules of play to gain an advantage.

ii. Cheating includes, but is not limited to, acts such as: collusion; chip stealing; transferring non-value Tournament chips from one event to another; card marking; card substitution; or the use of any kind of cheating device.

iii. Collusion is defined as any agreement amongst two (2) or more players to engage in illegal or unethical acts against other players.

iv. Collusion includes, but is not limited to, acts such as: chip dumping; soft play; sharing card information with another player; sending or receiving signals from or to another player; the use of electronic communication with the intent to facilitate collusion; and any other act that Rio and WSOP deem inappropriate.
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:27 PM   #29
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

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Originally Posted by Alizona View Post
Using your scenario of folding the nuts to "keep a donk in the game" is similarly weird to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganaram View Post
"Heck, even mucking the nuts could make sense in order to keep a short stack in the game longer"

oh my
Players who have never abused the bubble ITT
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:40 PM   #30
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Re: Penalizing someone who checks the nuts in position on the river is idiotic

People that cheat get a penalty

Not betting the nuts = Softplaying

Softplaying = cheating

Therefore not betting the nuts is cheating and cheaters get a penalty
.... basic logic...

That's your explanation.
any genius should understand that
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