I think this was made in response to Doug's latest video where he fired some shots at JNandez. Obv we don't know how much of it is true, but seems like a pretty ****ed up situation.

Cliffs:

- Doug reached out to his fanboy Fernando offering to make the PLO University and Fernando agrees to 25% cut even though he feels it's way too small (business fish)

-Fern lets them know that he feels 25% is too little but he accepts with the gentlemen's agreement that Fern later does more stuff for upswing and gets a cut of 50%-75%

- When course is done Fern learns that Joey has been hired as an affiliate, which is supposedly really weird to do in the first big week of sales (would expect to save affiliates to bump up the sales later when things cool down instead)

- Joey gets 25% ($250) from every purchase made through affiliate link and then Fern gets 25% of the $750 left over

- Fern pitches PLO Lab to stay up to date with solvers. Upswing agrees offering 30% cut and Fern is shocked because he thought they had the gentlemen's agreement that he gets more . Upswing insists he IS getting paid more than 25%.

- Once again Joey is made affiliate in his favour over Fern and makes more money than Fern from affiliate sales. The fact that only 5/140 affiliate signups were new (without having bought PLO University) makes it worse as Joey is basically getting paid twice for bringing in the same people.

- Fern tries to reason with upswing communicating his unhappiness and tries to negotiate now but they sternly shut down any discussion as the contract is signed

- Also talked to Joey who he considered a friend but Joey also wasn't having any of it as Joey was making a ton of money (again "contract is signed").

- Joey also pushed for a 3h podcast with Fern where he aggressively pushed PLO University for a quick money grab, promising he'd make additional videos which were never created

- Later increasingly miserable Fern goes through the contract, finds the loophole and says he's leaving.

- Upswing reacts very aggressively, threatening to sue and promising if Fern does this that they'll make sure he'll forever be hated and never work with anyone in poker ever again (Coletta allegedly said this IIRC)

- Finally upswing realises they can't do anything legally as long as fern gives 3 months notice, which he did

- Meanwhile fern is not getting paid for first of the 3 months. Talks to upswing, they say he'll get paid in total after the 3 months, he says ok.

- Does not get paid (owed ~90k). Upswing pretty much plays dumb and later somehow offers only $1.2k for the total of 3 month's work. Fern feels bullied and pressured and doesn't want to go to court with a big American company so he just agrees and wants to be done with it.

- He hasn't even been paid the $1.2k. Fine, he just wants to be done with it.

- Fern wanted to find a way to, together with upswing, communicate the reasons he's leaving diplomatically to the customers well in advance before he leaves. Upswing first refused and wanted to leave it until late, but later seemingly accepted.

- So Fern goes to bed under the impression that they'll all together communicate the news as easily as possible to the customers

- However Doug goes back on his word and launches the big smearing attack on Fern, shutting him out of the fb group, when he knows fern is asleep and won't be able to respond in a few hours.

Other random:

- When Fern first went to meet Doug in person in his house in Las Vegas he went with fees and another friend. Doug just talked to fees for 15min completely blanking Fern and not even looking at him while Fern was standing awkwadly with a bottle of whisky he brought as a gift, waiting to be acknowldeged. (they'd talked on skype obv prior to this)

- Fern at some point talked to an unnamed upswing member over skyped who in a manic state said (something like, not verbatim) "HAVE YOU MADE MORE VIDEOS? I HAVE SO MUCH MONEY BUT I NEED MORE."

- Fern was again increasingly uncomfortable with working in such an environment.

- Every time Fern tried to reason with Doug over skype he'd feel beaten since Doug is much more articulate in English and would never feel his concerns were properly acknowledged.

-Finally with the loophole thing Fern felt like he had the upper hand and it's at this point Doug really realised he's beaten and started ramping up the threats.

- Unnamed upswing member bought rio domain. I thought this was jmo so don't really get it, but I guess Doug, fees, or coletta bought it and had no-f***ks-given jmo to play like he did so upswing could save face (and avoid lawsuit??). Fern was very uncomfortable with this and let Galfond know

Cliffs obviously subject to me misunderstanding or misremembering or missing important info, so probably still watch the video at 1.5x speed or something.

Somehow upswing seems to me really unprofessional in this case. Promises mean nothing, contracts do, and jnandez had one with the possibility to leave after time x. He just used this option, it's super normal and common in the buisness world. People just act accordingly to their contracts, so this whole thing where he tries to blame jnandez and talks about his shady behavior is somehow inappropriate to me.

Poker players are just Greedy ****s, even though doug always tries to pretend he is somehow now, and jnandez just did what was in his opinion best value for him, not giving a **** about promises. Unethical, maybe?! But them whole capitalism is unethical, u just do what is the best for you, this is how it works. In order to at least regulate capitalism a little bit u have binding contracts.

Jnandez didn't do anything illegal, broke no contract, so how is it okay for Doug to start this shaming campaign.

Imo it isn't, just if u look at the facts from the outside. It's their fault they put an exit option in it...

BTW Video ist on jnandez Chan, your link doesn't work.

The Fernando not getting paid part is strange. I mean, out of all the drama there is and who-said-whats and who-acted-hows this one (very sizeable) puzzle piece should be verifiable by both sides in some way

Yikes... they all look terrible now, but it's difficult to sympathize with people who are trying to make everyone good at poker

There is a lot of stuff in that list that sounds so stupid/strange that it's giving me a hard time believing it.

Didn't want the hassle of getting paid the $90k he was owed? accepting 1.2k? No way that is real/how it is portrayed.

What you do if you find out people you work with is bunch of morons with totally different values? (Allegedly)

lol at joey getting same/more with affiliate link then video course author. That sounds insane but not sure about typical %.
Marketing budget taking off JNandez 25% cut seem so strange. Again i have no experience about standards/what was agreed in contract but feeling it should be UpSwing costs.

Around 41:00, upswing reaction to leaving seem very unprofessional. Not even including all predatory business practices before.

Around 51:00, Please doug give us your calculations lol.

Bad stand up comedy and now this ..Oh no !

Overleveraged poker training company takes stupid line in order to stay afloat. Business fish agrees to deal he knows he doesn't agree with and then later complains. Film at 11.

Just taking the piss outta ya Doug. All gossip at this point.

Surprisingly all drama in poker is concentrated on one person!
Must be a coincidence lol

I don't know anything about how this would work, but his explanation seems reasonable. Sueing out Switzerland would be expensive and it still wouldn't gurantee that he would get paid and I assume he would have to travel and spend time dealing with it, which could be stressful so it might be okay to let it go. My impression is that at this point he already talked with a lawyer about it.

I also think he was fine with the 30% cut, (obv wasn't super happy about it, but he said okay to that) but what pushed him over was the fact that Doug tried to take care of his boy, Joey, which is admirable to an extent, but this happened at the expense of JNandez, so he found a way out of the contract. If what JNandez said is true, than Joey got paid for essentialy doing nothing, because he never made those extra videos. Someone who bought the course through his link maybe could confirm this. I think the Upswing team definietly took advantage of his lack of experience.

The irony of this whole thing is that Doug ****ed over one of his fan (JNandez) just like he kinda got ****ed over by Ben86 and Doug was a fan of him.

hahaha

No matter who said what, no matter what actually went down, this whole thing casts plenty of shade over everyone involved.


-1

No matter what happened here, it's going to be a great summer.

Agreed, looks like **** for all three of the major players in a variety of ways

Unsubscribing from upswing and Doug's YouTube channel

Unsubbed from joeingram1 too

Wow. Strong stuff. Very disappointed of Dough but also Joe. I guess when money is involved, ppl tend to lose their values...

Also, inb4 shots fired on joey's podcast with doug on monday

Unsubscribing as well. wtf doug and joe.

Not really surprised, as someone who bought the MTT course and was sorely disappointed, this is exactly what I said was likely in the first Nandez thread. Whenever you have ANYONE making upwards of 50% just for their name and doing nothing, it tends to result in poor ethics or at least avocation of poor/substandard products.

The irony of this whole thing is that Doug ****ed over one of his fan (JNandez) just like he kinda got ****ed over by Ben86 and Doug was a fan of him.

Kill your idols!!!

And dont think that because someone is a "good guy" that they wont
bend you over when it comes to the holiest of them all:
The almighty dollar.

Also 6max nlhe cash mastery in my opinion was poor/substandard product and now it make more sense why.

Pretty crazy joey got 25% affiliate cut from the $1k before JN got a 25% split (so JN got 25% of 750 instead of 1k).

I would be SUPER SUPER surprised if genuinely more than 5-10% of those people who signed up with joeys link would not have bought course if it werent for his affiliate link. We are poker players obviously if theres an affiliate promising bonus videos for same price we will go with that option (without knowledge that it will be screwing over the maker of the course / not actually ever getting those bonus videos on top of it) lol.

Sounds more like a mistake on Doug / Upswings part trying to help out a friend though rather than something joey tried to demand out of them. Anyone in Joes spot is prob happy to get $$$ for no effort (ok mentioning upswing on a few podcasts and talking about the course. Hard grueling work)

I was curious how JN and joey stopped being friends very suddenly so this all makes more sense on if JN confronted him about it.


Rest of the info from the vid was pretty much already out there in discord / other social medias but it seems overall like a bunch of poker players with a lot of money butting heads and not understanding business ethics / morals on each side.

Doug hadn't even looked at the course before it was released (lol).

Reminds me of the time mmasherdog fired shots and said something to the effect of "We'll take the time to ensure the quality of [product] before releasing it to our customers. We won't just rush it to make a quick buck, we're not upswing poker."