I wonder if SageDonkey is the most ignored person on this forum, it's kinda amazing!

Okay I respect your POV on this, you don't like the length of my posts or my writing style but also please consider that many of my posts open up new areas of the discussion. E.g. my last longer post was regarding if AT *angled* or *cheated*, which others then went on to debate.

I also assume that you, like many in NVG, do not like the fact that I sometimes have a completely opposing view or different way of looking at things to the majority of the poker community. My instinct is that this is the real underlying reason why there is so much venomous dislike/hatred for my posts on 2plus2, because I am not falling in line with the masses.

Um, that point was raised way back at post #179, et. seq.

Yes I agree, angling or cheating has been previously mentioned.

But my recent long post, including if it was angling or cheating, also opened up the related issue that there IMO needs to be proper punishments for hiding big chips etc which is why players continue to do it and to angle/cheat in other ways.

In the 2015 WSOP $10K HU there was outcry in the poker community when Valeriu Coca was allegedly marking cards and it then transpired that he had previously been banned in Prague casinos for allegedly the same thing.
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2015/...-all-21773.htm

So I introduced a new and I think important part of the discussion about what AT did and how to punish it and to deter him and others doing the same again. One poster posted "this +1000" in reply to that post of mine.
If casinos and poker operators co-operated with each other as I suggested then the Valeriu Coca incident would likely not have happened.

Some of my posts are very long, guilty as charged. But the rest of the abuse I get and the pride people take in putting me on ignore says more about those doing it than it does about me. I am not afraid to post the ugly truth about certain aspects of poker or to call out the masses as being narrow minded on some issues, and this is what people don't like.

That's quite the mental gymnastics routine, Sage. But sure, everyone else is the problem. We must all be too stupid to read long posts and intolerant to hear opposing views. Everyone except you, of course. You're brilliant.

Oh, actually I forgot that every thread in this subforum is full of contentious debate without anyone resorting to ignore lists. And that long posts by other users are actually taken seriously and often applauded for their insight.

Nevermind. Guess you just have a victim complex.

Before I posted in 2plus2 I posted in the now defunct Gutshot Forum where my posts were often long and there was healthy and yes sometimes heated and ferocious debate but no one ever put me on ignore and people did not resort to replying "blah, blah, blah, stop posting".

If they disagreed with something they debated it in a civil way.

I won the forum poster of the year award in both years that I posted there. Posters were more open minded and dare I say nicer people too.

People have told me that they are scared to post on 2plus2 with opposing opinions to the masses because of the unrelenting attacks on them it can cause. Also some players are backed by people who are part of the poker clique so naturally would not want to be seen as disagreeing with them.

I know exactly what is going in here, the deluded self righteous poker community clique cannot stand someone disagreeing with them or making posts that ultimately would lead to pointing the finger back at many of them being every bit as "bad" as Alec Torelli. What is the poker clique's strategy? To try to bully me into not posting. Good luck with that.

The hypocrisy of the angry mob trying to ruin Alec Torelli's life is quite astounding. He is a sometimes angler in an environment that you and others let tick along in that way.

If players really wanted a totally fair game they would take measures to try to create one and if they did and wanted to clean up the game, there would have to be an amnesty for a huge chunk of current players who have previously angled, cheated or broken the rules. Therein probably lies the problem.

you guys had to get him started lol

After putting SageDonkey on ignore, I can say that this thread has become a lot better. Needs more photoshops though.

Cliffs for those with SageDonkey on ignore:

• no one "understands" how much his walls of text contribute to 2+2
• one time, one poster responded with "this +1000" to one of his posts
• SageDonkey's long, rambling posts broke the Gutshot Forum, it is now defunct
• everyone else is the problem; if only they could understand that

Oh, I stand corrected.

But seriously there are other people in this thread taking Alec's side. Nobody has put them on ignore or criticized them for awful writing.

Sometimes I agree with your posts and still feel cheated of my time for having read them.

So the people letting him get away with it are also the ones trying to ruin his life?

Ever considered you are misreading the situation?
As a non poker-cliquer the thing I really can't stand about your posts is the self absorption and arrogance + attention seeking. Plain and simple. A lack of awareness to this issue and inability to communicate more effectively takes away from the intelligent points you make.

People stop quoting SageDonkey, the ignore function doesn't block him when you quote it so I still see his rambling.

I casually glance at this forum from time to time. From what I've read of his posts, I agree with most of what SageDonkey says ITT. His posts seem well written and thought out.

"Everyone else" is not "the problem". There are a select few who seem intent on finding some issue with SageDonkey's posts and have chosen to ignore him. However, from the outside looking in, those issues are unwarranted, immature, and simply derail the thread.

Okay I take on board what many posters say ITT, that many of my posts are too long. Whether they are well or poorly written or not I think is more subjective.

So you have my pledge that all of my posts after this one will be 100 words or less until 31/12/18 and I won't cheat by posting 100 words and then 100 words straight after on the next post but I do reserve the right to post up to 100 words 5 or more posts later if I wish.

If any of my posts come across as arrogant I apologise for this, as it is not my intention at all for them to do so. As for some of my posts being self absorbed, yes maybe, because that is how I talk and debate as a person IRL, I very often refer to experiences I have had personally or to things I have seen, and weave them into the discussion.

Some people may mock (in a funny way, which did make me laugh) me winning a forum poster of the year award twice. Yes it was only a minor achievement but I was also invited (I didn't ask them) to be a paid writer for the Gutshot Forum. I accepted and I wrote some articles on various poker related topics. For the next few years afterwards people who I had never met before told me in live comps that I then played how much they enjoyed reading my articles. Unfortunately no working links to them exist as Gutshot on line/The International poker club closed down for regulatory type reasons and the company chose to take absolutely all forum content down.

The Alec Torelli angling situation: Well I am with everyone ITT that it was very wrong what he did. But I also later said let him now get on with what he wants to do, because I feel that he is now being over punished for something that the system has allowed him to do, qualifying this with an analogy to certain foul play (angling/cheating) in soccer that some players take advantage of because the rules/penalties and their enforcement or non enforcement are weak.

That is it really, all of my posts until 31/12/18 will be now 100 words or less, excluding any links I include or the quoted text of others.

Apologies to anyone who for whatever reason doesn't like my posts. That is just me, everyone is different. Live and let live.

Good luck to everyone ITT at the tables and in everything else you do.

Kind regards,

SageDonkey

All these years later and he still doesn't understand that we were taking the piss.

No I did realise at the time that the awards were partly due to the sheer volume of stuff I posted and a bit tongue in cheek so not purely on merit.

But being asked to be a paid writer by Gutshot was a real thing and I am slightly pi$$ed off that the articles no longer exist as some of the stuff I wrote *was* really good and was written when I was at the peak of my playing powers.

I was paid in poker chips at the club, which Barry was obviously then hoping would be raked back!

Posted this in thread about double standard pokerstars had given username changes:

It got deleted when I can back up everything I said here with facts.

///


Why are you surprised with pokerstars doing something like this? Out of all things this has to be most minor issue

#1 Scamming supernova players -- even Daniel Negreanu admits what they did was extremely unjust but he still collects the huge paycheck. Basically promising players something and conveniently cancelling those benefits because they only care about their bottom line at any cost.

#2 customer support is a joke, i.e. 2p2's very own "pokerstars baard" has lied countless times and delivered numerous empty promises. In addition he has shown himself to be a border line criminal in manner he conducts business.

#3 Ceo of the entire company at one point was indicted on fraud charges (david bazzofff). No big deal right?


#4 There is a reason some of top pros did not renew their contract for this company. Despite getting lucrative renewal contracts, their integrity meant something. Not blaming any of current sponsored pros, but this company has fraud written all over it.

I assume this double standard of allowing username changes for 1 player (spraggy), who is actually a nice guy and grinding on twitch is fine where he shows his hole cards every session and interacts with chat. Take issue with the bigger stuff, this is a borderline criminal company and needs to be recognized as such. Issues such as rare username changes should not be met with much shock. Pokerstars reputation as a poker site that acts with integrity is no longer the case.
==

Go ahead and ban me if you are just going to start deleting post because you do not like them. Companys can act with little integrity and not be held responsible? This is suppose to be an open forum, yes this is bad press for pokerstars, but why are mods just deleting post. seriously its bull****.

While I'm not involved in the situation, what stands out to me from a quick read of your post is you calling both a person and a company criminal, with nothing to back it up, is problematic. Why not just make your point without the hyperbole?

And adding "border line" or "borderline" really doesn't change things, as they wouldn't in someone's mind if I called them a "borderline rapist" or "borderline child molester". If you don't have reason (and evidence) to call someone a criminal, just avoid the word altogether.

But, as I wasn't directly involved, I'm not qualified to say whether that was the issue or not.

I really hope this doesn't mean you think that moderators habitually delete posts simply for being critical of Poker Stars, because there are thousands of posts on our forums that would say otherwise. I doubt you'll find many (any?) other poker forums that are more open when it comes to allowing criticism of advertisers.

Noted.

I have it at 100 using word but do we really want to go there?

Finds a post that was (maybe) one word over, 11 days after it was posted. Well done.