A shady bunch of pros here. The whole gang of them ok with concealing a Portugal retreat (as we have heard they were told not to talk about it before or during), leading secret lives , maybe their lock contracts call for acts of duplicity when company ship is sinking

Quit trying to make the most obtuse, irrelevant connections to an obvious analogy. This isn't about how Jordan is a man and Melanie is a woman, therefore we can't learn anything. Or how MJ is black and Melanie is white so it's all apples and oranges.

This is about barking up the wrong tree and not even thinking twice about it. Were you in a coma during the Joe Sebok and UB scandals? Did your selective memory just decide to ignore all the Durrrr and FTP ****? The suits from FTP and UB were really transparent after BF weren't they? And it was especially because the endorsed Pros being burned at the stake that got us all the answers. How many more times do you need us to go through this again before you finally get it?

Oh wait no, this time it's alllll different now. Don't worry about all that pre-BF crap we went through. History doesn't repeat itself. This time, we'll really get exactly the info you are looking for to satisfy why people are getting screwed. Backlog schmacklog, blah blah payment processor shutdown blah blah CRAZY TALK. IT'S ALL A HOAX.

Delete your action thread! As already stated funny you only posted about lock after the fact that people were posting questions in your thread. Wheres your common Sense?

I agreed 100% with the stuff you put there, I agree people trolling your MP thread were pretty out of line. Maybe make it clear that people buying action are buying action from someone who will be wearing a patch promoting Lock Poker, but that's it imo.

I'm actually curious what the answer to these questions are, because the rest of your post doesn't actually answer them.

It certainly seems that way.

This kind of makes sense, but then why is it that others have posted tweets extremely recently from you where you are encouraging people to sign up and deposit on Lock? I understand you not wanting to completely jump ship, but if you were to actually have integrity (unless you know something concrete that we don't proving that people will get paid), you wouldn't be attempting to sign people up. You would be attempting to provide a channel for others to communicate to Lock about THEIR money through you, and would be bringing these concerns to the higher-ups at Lock, and you would be updating the public about the status of cashouts. You would be telling the public that most likely it would take them at least 3-4 months to get any cashout money, and that if there are any transfers it is extremely likely the security department will make a mistake and then not answer their emails for weeks at a time. Maybe if you were to tell the public what the actual situation was, Lock would have more motivation to make the actual situation better, and then when you promoted them in the future with good information, people would actually trust you.

I think most realize this is the case, and I don't think anyone is blaming you for the cashout problems. What they are blaming you for is promoting and attempting to sign new players onto a site with these cashout problems.

This would be good if it were not just a bunch of words. What have you done specifically? What have you found out? Could you maybe request that the higher-ups at Lock show you proof that they do indeed have enough money to cover player balances right now? Or at least explain/demonstrate to you why non-US withdrawals are taking months as well? If Lock money were taking 2-3 months to get to US players but a week to get to non-US players, this would be an entirely different story. But they claim to have all player balances, yet they are unable to send said money to non-US players in a timely fashion.

Yep now address why non-US cashouts take so long.

You've gotten some answers? Please enlighten us then. And talking about being instrumental in the process? Read the Lock forum from time to time with all the angry people who have money on the site and observe how Shane, the person Lock pays money to interact with customers, treats them. I'm hoping as a poker player who actually seems to be ok at poker, you will be intelligent enough to realize all the downright lies Shane gives to players with money on the site. These lies have also included promises of faster cashout times for years now.

Why the **** will they have to wait until June to do that for RoW players? Again, if they have the money to pay 100% of player balances, what is stopping them from getting the money from them to the non-US players who want cashouts in a timely manner? Until that question is answered, anyone depositing money on Lock Poker is quite frankly ******ed.

Which is actually why Lock should be encouraging the transfer and cash out of funds that are not played with. Now granted I can understand if their regulations require them to take measures to prevent money laundering, but the point is the more they allow Americans to xfer to non-Americans and receive small transfers that way, the less they have to worry about dealing with US processors. I don't think anyone would think less of Lock if US players had to wait 2-3 months while non-US players were paid in a week. There would be a market for cashing out American players and they most likely would be able to cash out immediately for somewhere around 90-95% or else simply wait 2-3 months for 100%. This would be the case if Lock had all player balances, but since it's not this is just further evidence that they don't.

ok so do that. Demand actual answers from Lock Poker and communicate the results, be they positive or negative, to the public. Read the Lock sub-forum and communicate to all of your followers on twitter what the actual situation is with regards to cashouts, instead of advertising for them and trying to get new players to sign up and deposit on a site that most likely right now does not have 100% of player balances.

I really hope I'm wrong and there is something I don't see, but the thing is IF Lock is indeed broke, the actions they are taking is the exact actions they would take. And if they're not broke, the actions they are taking would only be taken if they are beyond incompetent. So a lot of people with money on the site are really hoping that Lock is simply beyond incompetent rather than running a ponzi scheme, but if we look at the probability I don't think it's likely that's the case. And honestly if the pros actually believed the bull**** they were spouting (assuming they have no insider info they haven't shared with the public), they would be buying up Lock funds left and right in the marketplace right now because last I knew it was selling around 35%. But alas there it remains, indicating that there are not only sellers willing to part with their Lock bankrolls for only 35% of its value, but also not enough buyers confident enough to buy anywhere above 35%. This should concern you and you should be taking more actions other than simply talking to Lock and voicing the concern that players be paid their own money. Lock shouldn't have to be told that and you shouldn't be accepting "oh it'll be better next month" as an answer.

So basically thanks for posting, anything is better than nothing, and thanks for voicing concerns with Lock management, but you need to do a much better job before you can begin to take credit for anything. You are in a position where you have a lot of influence and you can educate the public and use this education to put a ton of pressure on Lock to prove they are solvent, assuming you believe they are. Or at the very least you could talk to them about answering customers with 5 figure cashout requests that are denied. I know multiple people in that situation who have gone days and even over a week without answers to emails regarding their cancelled cashouts. You could be using your influence to make sure those people at least get updates on their personal issues. But instead you use a lot of big words to basically say you've told Lock they should pay players and they've told you "we're trying and will do better", and it's just kinda sad that you think that's actually enough that anyone would forgive you for continuing to shill for Lock and encouraging people to deposit.

Great post Kilowatt. I hope you get your money but we both know it's a longshot.

How laughable is this? So you're saying you feel connected right now to upper management of Lock? Almost like having family as a go between?

Melanie

Since the pro's and management are currently together , could you ask for Jen to show you proof that Lock actually has the players money in segregated accounts and that those accounts hold all of the money so that players could be cashed out 100% of their money?

Could you also ask how the transfer abuse actually affects Lock ability to pay out cashouts if they have the money.Someone has stated that you PM'd an offer to someone with a hefty Vig for a transfer. Do you consider yourself to be someone who was abusing the transfer process.

You posted that the actions 2+2 took with mason and matts post were a positive step for Lock,. How is suspending their ability to promote Lock a positive step.Surely it just highlights how precarious the situation is at Lock now when 2+2 no longer wants to be actively promoting Lock and the Lock forum is now just to help past players signed up via past advertising.

You say that you feel responsible for players who may have signed up due to your promotional activities. Do you think that those players should be able to bring a class action against you and your fellow Lock pro's should Lock go bust in the same way that class actions were brought against FTP pros and management.Tom Dwan said that he'd give his FTP promotional income back to the players if a settlement wasn't reached , Do you feel that you and your fellow pros could/should give the same guarantee to Lock players.

You say that you have been given assurances that withdrawal times for skrill will be 1-2 weeks by june. With huge volumes of cashouts cancelled and large amounts made unwithdrawable due to cashouts. Isn't it obvious that starting from a new waiting list some cashouts can then be made in 1-2 weeks and then as more cashout requests come in that those timeframes will rapidly lengthen.


If Lock goes bust, do you think that the pros should make a contribution to a player restitution fund to cover the cost of the retreat that you are currently enjoying?How much can you accomplish as a body of Lock pros that you couldn't come up with at a meeting of the pros at an EPT event or aussie millions etc. Why didn't you as a body decide to nominate one or two individuals to press the issues facing Locks players regarding cash outs with Locks management. You can't claim on the one hand that the pros have been helping with the issues players face yet make no public comments about them , and then claim that you are unaware of any issues.

When Tiger Wood's image went down the pan with his extramarital affairs , the companies sponsoring him dropped him because he was tarnishing their image. What stops the pros from dropping Lock because they are now tarnishing your image? (apart from greed)

One question about this so called trading abuse at Lock. If it's true that rest of the world players can get somewhat normal cash outs by June 1st and US players are selling Lock at 40 cents on the dollar.......why wouldn't a rest of the world player buy up a ton of "Lock money" from a US player?

I'll jump in here and open myself up to some abuse.

ROW Cashouts - Merchants have limits, US facing sites have been denied skrill (see bodog iirc) and it's about building long term trust with them, there was a lot of abuse from the affiliate side abusing their prioritized cashouts. At this point Mel (and myself) can tell you that to the absolute best of our knowledge things SHOULD get better, you've even been given a time frame (max June, likely sooner). Now that some of the abuse has been addressed the backlog can and should be cleared pretty quickly while Lock still remains within it's limits. I know you guys and everyone else have waited a long time and all been super skeptical, this is the first time recently we've gotten a CONCRETE answer and also are able to share it with everyone else, all of us have been told that they WILL get better and we have a time frame, so let's give it 3 weeks and see if things go as smoothly as expected. This should be a great barometer for everyone and honestly all we can do at this point is wait for it to come true so no amount of berating/freaking out/etc. is going to change anything yet, we know you guys are calling for heads to roll but you have *some* answers now give Lock a chance to redeem themselves to you as they are promising to do it's a very tricky time for an operator in this market and I can tell you I honestly believe 100% in what Jen is doing and has planned and I wouldn't be representing this site if I didn't, and definitely would NEVER stay around if I knew something was wrong. Plain and simple.

(Also as to ROW/skrill limits, understand also that Lock is like magnitudes larger in size than most others who are processing quickly, they outspend everyone else by infinite on bringing in new players AFAIK and hit their skrill/etc. limits much faster. Being the biggest in the current space doesn't necessarily mean things are going to be the best from you, from what we've been told the limits are just tough, they have stopped a lot of the abuse though and like I said it should get much quicker)


US Cashouts - I don't know much about the US facing stuff but I do know it's very very hard to find processors willing to do large volume, you can lose them at the drop of a hat, and working with the wrong one can have VERY bad implications for you. I think everyone can understand that this side of any business in the market right now is incredibly difficult.


Didn't finish reading all of it Zac but wanted to respond to this part at least because this was my (and most others) focus while addressing everything to Jen. I know people seem to want everyone to quit but we are very much a lifeline for the players into the company as well we're trying to do what's best for you guys in improving the site in all ways and cashouts is obviously the first step to building any trust back with those holding pitchforks. Give it the 3-4 week period we've been given for a time frame although it could definitely improve before then and let's readdress everything then. I know you've all been frustrated for a long time but like I said this is the first real concrete info you've gotten so you can't just continue going nuts for the til June and expect it to change/accomplish anything, I doubt we'd have that time frame if it could be done any sooner, so wait it out and give them a chance to come through

Seriously bro?

primordial, there should be no reason that ROW players withdrawing to ewallets are taking 5+weeks. This is the biggest reason nearly every reg thinks lock is going under.

Other poker sites take 1-2 days, if lock has a singular processor for the whole player base then that might be the stupidest business decision they have made (in a long line of stupid decisions).

My understanding of the current lock problem- US customer details are effectively hidden by exorbitant processors, thereby as soon as a deposit is made the $ is devalued. If a player then wins or loses a lot of money in a short time frame (without raking a sufficient amount to cover the 10-25% processor cost for cashout) lock loses money.
This is one of the primary reasons "fair play" was introduced, to prolong the time it takes for deposits to be distributed and therby increase hands played, also there are probably some other nice things gained, all bull**** ofc, but helping locks bottom line.


I think its disgusting that lock has this many pro's and takes them on lavish holidays while its customers sit on $ they cannot withdraw; makes me sick to the stomach.

<Insert You Don't Say Meme>



1. You really believe cashout will get back to normal?
2. Player transfer - Locked account

Just to play Devil's advocate...

I think a lot of the demands and comments around this issue are beyond ******ed. I wonder how many people have actually had a real job (non-poker) with an actual employer before. Ever signed a contract for something?

Doing things that can be perceived as slander against your employer, damaging to their brand and in direct contrast to what you are contractually bound to do for them, well....
It's pretty obvious where that ends and not a good place for those with contracts, and potentially much worse than just losing a contract.

This is exactly why there is silence whenever this happens with any site, including FTP. If I were contractually employed in a marketing capacity for any business I would be seeking legal advice or getting written permission from the employer before opening my mouth on matters like these. I'm pretty sure that's what happened with FTP and what is more than likely happening here.

I just think sometimes people need to take a deep breath. I appreciate this is a **** scenario for a lot of people and very frustrating. Expecting sponsored pros to be your martyrs, throw down ultimatums to their employers and potentially open themselves up to legal action is a little far fetched.

^^ so if they stop working on promoting the site lock will sue them? lol

dont throw down ultimatums to employers, but dont go tweeting about some lock mtt or sodding off to a castle in france for a pissup. bit of moral fortitude goes a long way.

.

thanks for taking the time to respond, fingers crossed.

No probably not for just stopping work. If they're perceived as doing something damaging then hell yes.

So your consensus is that lock is out of money, is run by scumbags but wouldn't start hugely profitable lawsuits against a bunch of 20-somethings with minimal legal nous and business experience if they thought they could profit from that?

idk, in the uk a lawsuit like that would be laughed out of court.

really? Most people caught doing something defamatory towards their employer publicly in any country can expect instant dismissal at a minimum. If your actions are seen to have denied your employer revenue a lawsuit would be expected.

If Lock are as precarious as everyone seems to think I would personally not want to be the employee throwing pebbles at a sinking ship, as it's not a great stretch to correlate your actions to having helped accomplish this.

Naaah only in the U.S bro. You would be unlikely to get sued in France by your employer if the terms of your contract went against basic moral issues such as " My employer is lying to his customers and want me to keep promoting his business when i know for a fact that it's all BS "

Some of you just don't get it. These pros are encouraging people to deposit money onto a site that most likely won't be returning that money whether they win or lose. They are scammers. Anyone that thinks that the jury is still out on Lock at this point needs to read up and/or wake up.

Hey Primordial, do you care to comment on Jennifer Larson's portugal trip and the tweet by some strippers thanking lock poker? Do you think its okay that the upper management is chilling in portugal with our money?

What a load. How exactly is deciding to stop using your name to scam players into depositing money onto an insolvent site doing "absolutely nothing"?

How exactly would that destroy any channels of communication between Lock and the poker community? Those channels already don't exist, and certainly not through you.

good find lol

the only channel that has existed between lock and the poker community is the subforum and shane (who is now universally hated lol). none of the pros ever did anything to communicate with the 2p2 community when things got dicey, obrestad etc only shilled out on twitter

everything is okay now, I hear girah is throwing a sick rave in portugal for the mizrachi bros and jen <3 all our cashout problems are solved!!!!

Explain how you are a lifeline into the company? I have never seen a single post from any of lock pros in the lock sub forum since revolution began. It's good to see you guys posting now but it's way too little and way too late.

We've been given the same BS the past 7-8 months about cashouts improving. The exact opposite has been happening. Why should we believe the same old song and dance this time? Please don't say because Jen said so.