Michael Jordan says to buy nike shoes and you get a nice pair of shoes. His promise lived up to reality.

He never said "these shoes are American made by fairly paid workers." If he ever did, he would be completely and justifiably vilified by every corner of the media and Nike customers.

Melanie Weisner says to play on Lock and you'll get fair treatment. Her promise has not lived up to reality.

That's the difference.

Pretty sure if every market place poster had the amount of money to cover first place in their online site they wouldn't be posting there.

The point is I want to be paid out with money deposited onto the site and not funds bought at a discount. You know, the same way she'd pay out to someone investing via MB and wanting to be paid out on MB.

I can appreciate you trying to protect a friend though.

First, your comparisons are idiotic. Second, nobody is trying to get answers from her concerning the financial status of Lock poker. Everyone knows they are broke. There are people still waiting for checks that they requested in NOVEMBER. What everyone IS wondering is why her and all the other "pros" are promoting and accepting $$ from a poker site that is scamming the poker community.

Sorry, misinterpreted your post as requesting the fund be deposited prior to the event. What's wrong with buying the funds at a discount though? You can send her discounted money if she accepts. It's a lot more convenient for both of you if you just deal in stars money seeing as she can buyin with it and gets it returned there.

I'm not disagreeing with you in that aspect. In my post I never defended the Nike sponsored athletes. Feel free to create a thread and call them all out.

All I'm saying is that Lock pros should feel responsible for all the recreational players out there who signed up and deposited money because of them (and now are unable to withdraw and maybe lose their money).

I would prefer to use excess funds on Lock to turn zero utility into some utility. I'm more than comfortable waiting for her to deposit winnings back on Lock too.

I don't want funds bought at a discount because I want liquid added into the network. I want to see a Lock pro showing actions that state they believe Lock $ is anywhere close to offline funds, even at 90c on the dollar as opposed to the current rate.

Mealine, as much as I actually think you are wrong here, I really was hoping you weren't going to post itt. You literally have no chance of winning any argument. If you say "I'll take funds on Lock" then people get to say there is literally no chance of them getting paid back on Lock, which is 100% true right now. If you say "Not taking Lock funds as payment" then you get this.... And if you can cash out transferred funds on Lock, I mean that would be a joke for obv reasons.

Unless you can get who ever runs Lock to pay out to the players you can't win, and imo are going to end up looking like Joe Sebok did back with the UB stuff. Idk what your contract with Lock entitles, but ffs it's not hard to see why players aren't in the mood for Lock shills right now.

I don't see how Melanie can influence Lock paying the players or how she can be held responsible for anything that goes on Lock.
And it is prolly impossible for her to end her contract on the basis that Lock doesn't pay players.

On the other hand, usually people who are the most vocal when calling out others in issues of ethics and morality are the ones that greatly lack in them their self.

^^

Can you, and people who think like you, at least see why her getting new players to sign up at Lock right now, which if you look at her twitter sure as **** looks like she is trying to do for whatever reason, is unethical and even immoral really?

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game, ooh yeah have some sympathy here .

Yes, I can, I can also see 99.9% of people doing the same if they were in her shoes.

I'm sorry, but it's really difficult to have sympathy for people who chose to play on Lock over the last couple of years and now can't get their money off. They have been doing unethical and shady things for a long time with no one holding them accountable at all. It's almost comical how many times they have lied, cheated, or stole from their players. Anyone who has been playing there has been doing it simply out of greed and willful ignorance, and OBVIOUSLY your money wasn't safe.

Just for the record, I'm in no way saying this as a rep of Stars (they would probably not like me making this post actually), but I feel a personal need to say something since I have been trying to call Lock out for many many many months and get people to hold them accountable, and they have just continued to scam their players and never offer any explanations or apologies for those scams.

As far as people continuing to represent the site, well obviously LOL, but I've also been saying THAT for a long time.

idk what is the price of morals and souls going for not much I would guess, atleast for poker pros anyways.

completely agree

Agreed.

Girash scandal swept under the rug. Some of us tried to be as vigilant as possible even back then when this came out and they failed to pay out bonuses in a timely manner , but people kept flocking back to them. Glad they took "legal action" against Girah lol, but refuse to ever talk about it and get angry at us when we question them.

Hopefully you guys are able to cash out and what not and then let them disappear forever.

Disagree with this somewhat. Yes there is an inherent risk to playing on any US-site post BF. This includes Lock. There may be have been an extra risk associated with Lock vs. other sites, but I don't know that this extra risk was apparent going back years, or if it was, the risk disparity wasn't nearly as large as it is now. Some of the warnings signs that might have made Lock an unjustifiable risk were not well publicized, some were concerning but not enough to be totally disqualifying until months and months went by where they were handled poorly. And a lot of the red flags were unverifiable or could be plausibly explained as unfortunate flukes.

Yes some extra prudence would have been wise. Many of us probably wish we had exercised more caution. But it's not as if the only people playing on Lock did so out of pure greed - the desire to collect ungodly levels of rakeback for instance. It was a site with reasonable traffic that accepted US players. Thus, it was risky. But it's hard to blame players for not deeming it exceptionally risky compared to other US-facing sites.

In fact, Lock funds were basically trading at similar rates to funds from other US sites less than a year ago. It's sort of hard for you to defend the idea that it should have been obvious to any member of the poker community that Lock was a substantially greater risk.

as much as i agree with selbst's fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me rant... why you gotta kick a mofo while hes down?

having money locked up is painful. GL Soldiers

I understand the view that 2+2 members(or other poker forums) are pretty ignorant for playing on Lock but what about recs that have no idea about what is going on but just see that "The Grinder" represents their site so they sign up? Are these people just as stupid? Maybe, since they didn't do their own dd before signing up but it's still unethical for these pros to be promoting the site while knowing everything going on there.

On the other hand, there are people like me who did their research and still signed up(lol I know). This was over a year ago when I thought the risk of having money on just about any US friendly site was pretty much equal. Cashouts were not that bad at the time and the promotions were the best for US grinders, so I deposited a small amount knowing that the money was not safe but it wasn't an amount that I was worried about losing.

I built a substantial roll before realizing late last fall that maybe Lock has by far a greater risk of ruin than other sites, so I started to cash out everything. Well, you can only get one 2k WU every 2 months so I also continued to play and cash out via p2p instead of just letting the roll sit there not making a return for me. It's just so hard to immediately abandon ship from a site that doesn't pay out, ducy?

/rant

Started the post to just say that calling players "stupid, ignorant, etc.." for playing on Lock is rude, inconsiderate and adds nothing constructive to the conversation. The current situation is the subject at hand, not what decisions players may have made 1-2yrs ago...

idk strange how ppl will defend pros for shilling a obv scam site but will blame it on the players. I guess if you are offered money to promote a obv scam it is 100% ok if your a poker pro. we should say nothing if they fleece the rec and casual players if the pros are making some coin . I can see why rec and casual players feel like there being ripped off a lot.

yeah, it's just like that.

To actually reply to that inane comment, it would be like saying you had no sympathy for someone who got ripped off in business dealings with someone who they knew to be unethical and scummy before going into business with them. And I wouldn't have much sympathy in that case either.

And yes, it sucks for those who didnt know anything and signed up due to seeing some famous pro. And the fault with that is on everyone in the community who could have done a better job demanding accountability and publicizing Lock's shadiness (besides obviously being on the pros as well).

this is kinda random but if she is selling shares and people are sending her money via her lock account, she technically shouldn't be able to withdraw that money much like the rest of the lock players are unable to do with the money that was transferred via p2p into their accounts. (not sure if this is the case but assuming it is if she is selling shares etc on 2p2)

That may be true for 5% of the poker community. People who a regulars on 2+2, listen to the Pokernews podcasts etc.

The other 95% are some random John and Jane Doe, people who have real jobs and just want to play a poker tournament 3 times a week. They don't want to do a background check on every site. They want to deposit money and play for fun. They see a familiar face on TV wearing a Lock patch and think that this site has to be legitimate and reliable.

If the default for every poker player (even the recs) should be to distrust every poker site then it's gg for the poker economy. We need the recreational players to deposit money and distribute it to the sharks. Saying to them "it's your own fault, you should have checked about Lock on 2+2" doesn't help anybody. Everybody loses. The amateur players will just eat their losses, quit poker and put their money into sports betting. Then all the regulars and pros come to 2+2 and complain about the games getting tougher and that there are no fish to be found.

The responses ITT and other related threads blaming and criticizing people for trusting the sites AS A DIRECT RESULT of their Pro's endorsing the site on twitter, fb, etc. is disgusting and shows how skewed the morality of the poker world has become.

There's no excuse for continuing to aggressively promote these sites when it is well-known fact that people can't cash-out and are getting <50 cents/$ in the marketplace. If you do this, regardless of whatever your contract dictates, you're either a total d-bag, or at the minimum have an unfathomable indifference to the consequences of your actions on those around you. It's that effing simple.

You're leading lambs to the slaughter for your own gain. period.

in other news, i just checked again and nope, i'm still not regretting leaving lock because i think they're shady. carry on.