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Old 10-13-2012, 03:58 AM   #1651
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

sux bad...

1. for people talking about rb being a gift... look at it this way. You do a job, you pay income tax, and get a net salary of X. You can then apply to get tax deductions and increase your salary by Y amount. So you end up earning X+Y. Suddenly "the man" says, no more tax deductions! and instead of seeing that as a reduction of salaries, you go "well... tax deductions were a gift anyways..." Wrong logic, imo.

2. regarding the new system, although we do not have all the info, it is clearly worse, and the fact that they try to make it look good doesnt change the fact that it is worse. No amount of spin will change the numbers, just need to wait and do some calculations, but first sight is clearly for the worse

3. long term users are being left behind. My 3+ years of iron man count for nothing now. My black card counts for nothing now (they say they MAY reintroduce it later, or maybe not) since it will be discontinued

Finally, just want to say, no hate on them, i'm glad to get my roll back, but besides the mid-year bonus, i dont see yet any incentives for a full time grinder like me to stay on ftp, which is fine, i'll just move my roll somewhere else
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:11 AM   #1652
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasMoyes View Post
A few points about the new system...

"It's better for all the players that didn't have RB" Well obviously...getting something is better than nothing...

"Why do you even need RB your supposed to try and win" Completely missing the point - players that were marginal losing players/BE players got an extra 2bb's/100 hands approximately which meant those bad players were kept in the game and you made more $$$.

What does $2.50 per 100 FTPs mean for you? Go back and try and remember your Iron Man calenders - I vaguely remember getting around 1000 points per day when I played so $25 RB - not a million miles away from my 27% (we're talking a few $$ either side) assuming I don't have to play 20 million hands a week just to get to the top tier.

So long as the top tier is something like 250-300 FTP per day average I'm sure it will be fine.

I'm concerned about the marginal losing player/BE players and the multi table nits leaving the player pool cos they were the biggest cash cows going - sure spewy fish gifted you a few buyins here and there but you could rely on those bad regs to be sitting there losing $$$ to you and getting it back via RB - now this wont be the case!
your are missing iron man; remember your IM calendar? remember the rewards you got for it? as far as we know now that reward is just gone...
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:22 AM   #1653
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sakipdsa View Post
sux bad...

1. for people talking about rb being a gift... look at it this way. You do a job, you pay income tax, and get a net salary of X. You can then apply to get tax deductions and increase your salary by Y amount. So you end up earning X+Y. Suddenly "the man" says, no more tax deductions! and instead of seeing that as a reduction of salaries, you go "well... tax deductions were a gift anyways..." Wrong logic, imo.

2. regarding the new system, although we do not have all the info, it is clearly worse, and the fact that they try to make it look good doesnt change the fact that it is worse. No amount of spin will change the numbers, just need to wait and do some calculations, but first sight is clearly for the worse

3. long term users are being left behind. My 3+ years of iron man count for nothing now. My black card counts for nothing now (they say they MAY reintroduce it later, or maybe not) since it will be discontinued

Finally, just want to say, no hate on them, i'm glad to get my roll back, but besides the mid-year bonus, i dont see yet any incentives for a full time grinder like me to stay on ftp, which is fine, i'll just move my roll somewhere else
More like wrong example IMO.

1. You should actually think of it like earning X as salary and Y as a bonus and then having the company you work for being bought out by the biggest major competitor securing all of your existing benefits but changing the bonus structure from the day they take over.

Before hand Y was worth 27% of the fees you paid less anything you bought in the store or used for tickets.

Now Y is worth a MAX of 25% but you don't take a the store purchase hit.

For the guy who says he got $10-20 per day in rakeback before BF, I'd say you'll hit the top level pretty quick.



Also, for every one complaining about being ripped off or bitching about what they are owed. The new FTP owes you nothing except your account balances. Anything they offer you over and above that is only to entice you to stay and they will freely admit that.

This is not the old company paying you back and trying to make up for mistakes, this is a new owner that already owns the best provider in the business. You won't get ripped off by this new owner.

2. Clear as mud that it is worse. will be case by case and majorly dependant on traffic and how much you choose to play at the new site IMO.

3. Refer to the bit where I said the new owners owe you nothing but your balance.


I was lucky enough to get rakeback about 12 months before BF but I really didn't earn that much anyway. Rakeback was a way of making players feel like they were important, but really the more people who get rakeback means that rake increases are much closer.

I'd much prefer a lower rake structure and no rakeback, but then after a while more player would bitch that they deserve something more than the other guys.

Do you really think that if you are one of the guys pulling massive amounts of cash out of the company that you are helping them earn money? It would be better if the casual player had a win every now and then to keep them redepositing and paying rake(without rakeback)
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:40 AM   #1654
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

in a home game, poker is a zero sum game and avg winrate is 0

playing at a casino or poker site, they take a cut from everyone's winrate making avg winrate < 0

if they give you back some of that cut, it is hardly a bonus, it is a deduction of the amount they take

i see no logic to regard it as a bonus, it is not as if avg winrate stayed the same and they gave u something on top, then yes, it would be a bonus. They give you back a small portion of what was yours to begin with.

Not to say we dont agree to it so we can play under XYZ conditions, but if suddenly they give back less, it is a worse deal, and in no way can be considered just worse gifts.
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:49 AM   #1655
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

About Mid year end bonus ?? is it suppose to be 1 lump sum at the beginning or increments over time and grind ?
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:36 AM   #1656
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Will the mid/end-year bonus stay? So will we receive another bonus beginning of 2013?
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:09 AM   #1657
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerian View Post
THIS ^^^ All you guys doing all the hating above need to re-read Shyam's post and the email again.


The 25% is a flat RB for EVERYONE, no matter what your volume of play (10 FTP's/$1 rake and 100 FTP's=$2.50)
+
on top of that you get to spend the FTP's earned in the store without a RB hit (worth up to 4-5%)
+
plus whatever Black Card gives us extra for the higher volume grinders (this is what we need to wait and see the value of)
= 30-40%+ ???

The 30-40% might not be quite as high as previous RB% for the highest level of grinders on FTP, but its certainly not bad, and it is certainly better for smaller volume players (fish).


Reading comprehension FTW!
lol, i have understood it the same first, but it really says UP TO.. and up to is a big lol. your explained system is quite cool and im perfectly fine with it, but now the lowvolume grinder are supposed to get less than bronzestar on stars and the highvolume grinders would get goldstar-rb fair system ITT
-------
My plan was to go back into grinding-mode at november, which should be fit quite well with my work but with 15-20% rb its stupid...
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:11 AM   #1658
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Extremely bad for high volume players. Compared to sne stars its really bad. But maybe this fact is really good for the quality of the games...
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:16 AM   #1659
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeri View Post
Extremely bad for high volume players. Compared to sne stars its really bad. But maybe this fact is really good for the quality of the games...
yeah, for them especially but as I understand the new system, its probably bad for literally every player except the ones, who didnt have RB before
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:18 AM   #1660
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterc1992 View Post
Yes rakeback is a gift...Its the reason people played on full tilt but it was a gift.It was great.
Don't be shy to say rake is a gift.

Q: when does ftp support begin answering emails?
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:21 AM   #1661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedSTRETCH View Post
So let me get this straight. I can reopen my old full tilt account since i relocated from the US. But when i get it unlocked i wont have rakeback anymore and i wont have any funds since the DOJ supposedly has them. Luckily i can make a deposit to play on Full Tilt. Think ill just bend over right now.
I love people who moan about getting there whole balance back yes going to a pain to get it off the DOJ, but it's the whole balance! You should be grateful not ungrateful
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:46 AM   #1662
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe O'Brian View Post
Btw lol at all the people complaining. You play online poker to win money, not to get an extra 8% of rakeback payments...
and rakeback isn't money somehow? if i get a $100 rakeback payment, it's worth less than if i stack someone at 100nl?
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:17 AM   #1663
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

Hi Shyam, i have a quick question for you


If im an Estonian who has relocated, can i somehow send the proof of my address before the site opens, so the real money games would be available?
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:28 AM   #1664
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

I will wait for final rewards system scheme, but so far 25+5% from the shop looks really bad compared to about 50% with Supernova on PS or Palladium on PP.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:30 AM   #1665
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Re: Official FTP (Pre)Relaunch Thread (OP updated October 8, 2012)

FTP has has historically been bad for "high level" grinders. I remember the plan being:

1) Start off on FTP to build a decent BR with RB + other bonuses

2) Move to Stars when you can put in enough volume to achieve SN+

3) ???

4) PROFIT!
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