Really though?

I'll start with , PUNTING IS NOT A CRIME!
and i'll end with , PUNTING IS STILL NOT A CRIME!

lets just play poker again , it's just money badgers .....when did it all go wrong ....people stallin to $$$jump , people stallin to make the add on etc etc ..... FUNPLAYERS like me are just not enjoying online poker anymore because of all this , poker was fun years ago , win or loose it was an awesome ride .....i know nobody cares , nothing will change , but still i just wanted to tell the community , I LOVE ALL THE PUNTERS AND FUNPLAYERS OUT THERE , keep up the good work !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

True

So I had a dream last night that I was at the poker table. I don't remember most of it but I remember that in one hand I had 92 and there was 2229 something on the board and I won a huge pot. And afterwards I had piled my chips into a big massive heap like the size of a watermelon or slightly larger and I thought about organizing them but instead I left it in a big heap because I recalled in Caro's Book of Poker Tells he says that players who pile and not stack chips are looser and I wanted to convey that message to the other players at the table.

For dream interpretations I think the being dealt garbage 92 and turning it into a monster is a metaphor for how I'm going to turn whatever garbage life throws at me into something glorious. I woke up feeling really good even though I went to bed last night a little bit down on myself as I had lost $400 yesterday at commerce. I shoved 55 on a board of 346 only to be called by 75. Big blowup. But today is a new day.

Also I've had plenty of awesome dreams in the past where I realize I'm dreaming and then I just start flying around. One dream I was trapped in a cage and then I realized it was a dream, pulled a lightsaber out of nowhere cut a hole threw the top of the cage and flew out.

Thats one good thing about not smoking weed. Vivid dreams. Never have dreams when I smoke pot. Thats not good. Anyone else have poker dreams or any other kind of interesting dreams??

[Woman, 71, accused of shooting man, 70, over poker game.
http://m.wbrc.com/myfoxal/db_343909/...tguid=ZvM6ZCdS

Tbh being now a rec player, I really don't care about the rake anymore. All I care about is having innovative game formats and innovative promotions - and that's what Pokerstars has delivered here. When people buy lottery tickets and scratchcards, nobody complains "Hey the rake is ridiculous - 40%. It makes this lotto unbeatable, I'm never buying again". But no, even with up to 50% rake, the lotto remains one of the most popular gambling games around - because people enjoy it!

The reality is "regs"/"grinders" only make up the minority of the overall player base. The majority favour games that are enjoyable over games that have low rake. I find the KO games enjoyable and tbh I'd never even started playing them until now. The new KO layout is fun, innovative and thrilling and will inspire many new players to become motivated into poker. If by playing I'm reinforcing the rake increase by "building liquidity", then that's good for their business (so well done to them), but it's also good for me because I'm having a good time. That's what it's all about - it's about making poker fun and relevant for players in society today.

^ So you think society today is full of morons?

That may be so, but as you point out, they are already well served by the high rake/low skill super fast format of scratch cards.

The question is, what about the other market segments?

Well sure there's a market for the low rake games as well, but it's a smaller market, and already plenty of other poker businesses are fighting for their space in this smaller market. Understandably, Amaya wants a bigger piece of a bigger pie - the market that offers casino/lotto-type games with higher rake, and Pokerstars is one of the only businesses that succeeds in delivering this type of business to its customers whilst also relating them to poker. In essence, from a business perspective I believe Stars is taking advantage of a lucrative gap in the market for poker-themed casino games, and I expect to see more innovative game formats of a similar nature (as spin n gos etc.) in the forthcoming future, and unfortunately for the "regs" here I expect the rake will be relatively high in these games as well.

Sure ironic that my "fleecing sheep" comment fits both xxpocketduckxx avatar and his outlook so perfectly. Just never occurred to me that some dumb people might be proud of being dumb though. aye aye aye

Hi Pocket Ducks!!!

As a recreational player, I'm curious, can you tell me what you find fun about Poker Stars and the service they offer?

Tbh I find it despicable that a regular player like yourself would refer to a recreational player as "dumb". The idea that rec players don't win because they're more dumb than reg players is stupid and completely offensive. Many rec players simply don't have the time or commitment to the game that a reg has, some are just looking to gamble and have a good time believe it or not. Recs play poker for fun and because they hope to win (rather than expect to) - similar reasoning to why people play lotto/scratchcards, because it's fun and there's a chance to win something. Recs (who aren't purely gambling addicts) treat poker as a hobby/pastime, just like golf, table tennis, ice-skating, and other recreational activities where you pay for the experience. Poker's no different; recs pay for the experience in terms of rake and the money they lose to better players. Yes it's -EV, just like when someone pays a fee to play golf it's -EV, but that don't make nobody dumb. As for calling me dumb, well I actually used to be a strong winning 25nl reg who recently turned rec after quitting playing poker regularly because of other commitments (not to mention that also my IQ is in the high 130s). So no I'm certainly not dumb by any standards and please don't make prejudices again about me just for being a rec player.

Hi, the thing I like about Pokerstars is the vast selection of games that can suit whatever mood I'm in, in particular the games which are fast-paced and exciting. The hyper KO games for instance - I like the bright orange flashes of explosion whenever you knock someone out, it adds an extra level of excitement to the game. Spin and gos are also fun with the chance to win some big prizes and I love the wheel that spins round with that drum roll sound makes it pretty thrilling, making them a good social game to play with mates and a few drinks at the weekend. I also like the nice selection of promotions on offer throughout the year (right now there are actually 3 promos running - the cash game quests, the knockout promos and now the new MTT promo). For me as a rec player, the thing that matters the least to me is the rake, I don't really care whether the rake is 4%, 8%, 12%, just as long as it isn't so rocket high that it becomes obvious enough to detract from the playing experience. You regs have to remember that it's the recs Pokerstars has to cater for first and foremost - and I'm one of them.

Great response!

I'm curious though, if winning money doesn't matter to you, then why not play play money games instead? There are far more options for that, and with play money the bonuses and games sites offer can are far more entertaining since sites are limited with the games they could offer (ie they can't offer bonus's that are -ev for themselves).

Thx!

Of course winning money matters to me. As I said, right now I'm at the stage where I hope to win rather than expect to. With spin n gos, regardless of the player, there's always that hope there of walking away with a jackpot prize. That's one of the reasons spin n gos are so popular. With play money however, that hope is gone as there's no longer any real money prizes that can be won. For me personally that's why I never take part in play money, but I do have a mate that does and enjoys it as a hobby - he even buys play money chips! So yea there's something for everyone I guess; that's what's so great about Pokerstars and sets it apart from its competitors.

I did not call you dumb because you are a rec in any way. In fact I'm more of a rec than a reg and my poker record is nothing to lord over anyone. However attributing to your arguments to lotto tickets because they are popular is dumb, when they are clearly one of the scourge's of today's society. So is comparing it to other pastimes that have associated costs when the changes at PS are clearly a money grab at the expense of the skill of the game. They are taking advantage of that for profit and that offends me and it should you too. Would you be ok if you showed up at the golf course and they said we only have 16 holes now because we want to have quicker rounds and have 2 less holes to maintain? As for being impressed with the KO graphic that's a 10 cent fix for them and makes no effect on me. However I can see an 8 yr old being impressed. Have fun depositing.

You are way too bright to engage this guy in any way. Have a look at his posting history, logic won't deter him in the slightest.


Best of luck at the draft btw, hopefully you draft second, right behind the HABS.

The fact remains that most recreational players, or at least many, won't even be aware of the rake changes (unless they've read about them of course). That's because most recs just log in and play. The majority of people reading a post from a stars rep on 2p2, Pokerstars corporate blogs etc... are actually regs. To add to this, Stars only emailed Goldstar+ players (who are subscribed to email updates) in advance about the rake increase - this excludes most rec players straight away. Most recs don't care about rake - in fact to reinforce my point, I even have a rec friend who plays on Stars regularly and doesn't even know what the word "rake" even means in the context of poker sites. He just logs in, has a good time, logs out - it's as simple as that. Rec players don't care about the "skill of the game", since most of them are aware that they aren't skilled players, but they're just looking to have a good time and try and win something if they're lucky.

Also, iirc the overall rake increase on Stars was around 4%...well to refer back to my golf analogy, let's suppose the cost of golf was increased overall by 4%, I expect most players would not be put off by this. Same applies with poker. A 4% increase can mean the difference between a winning player and a breakeven player when looking at it from a reg's perspective (because their winrates depend quite delicately on the rake costs so even a slight rake change can cause a huge difference if they're only a marginal winner to begin with), but from a rec's perspective it don't mean much tbh.

Finally, I want to address the part of your quote I bolded. I think you're basing this on your own personal opinion of not liking lotto just because there's no skill element and is -EV for everyone. But yet, lotto is still the most popular form of gambling for a reason. Ignoring addicts and problem gamblers, most who take part in the lotto do it as just a casual pastime for enjoyment, not because they're dumb. You may not enjoy it, but obviously all the hundreds of millions of lotto players across the world would disagree with you. They find enjoyment from watching the balls spin round. They find enjoyment from when their own numbers come out. It's also a social activity. They sometimes might discuss with their friends, dreaming about what they would spend the millions on if they won the jackpot. They get excitment/thrill from the chances of winning life-changing money and seeing other people's dreams come true on TV...I could go on for days here, but hopefully you get the overall jist of my argument.

^lol at this post.
are you supposed to have been reading this thread?
overall rake increase of 4%?! LMFAO!
your post would be nicer with pokerstars graphs of rake comparisons.

splashes tours got an increase of around 400% for ex-2xTs and 800% for ex-3xTs.
these are by far the most popular and most used satellites on site.
there are hyper rebuys tours that got the hyper-rake bump + rebuy-rake bump, whatever that adds up to.
more hypers and rebuys introduced to the new schedule (thus more rake compared to old turbos-slow freezouts)

but yeah keep eating the 4% amaya grass.

Id prefer a low raked fun game over a high raked fun game.

Actually, yes the net increase is 4%. This means an average across ALL game formats. In some games such as rebuys it will be much higher than 4%. In other games such as cash games, it will be lower. But it averages out to a 4% increase, and I can back this up:

^with a quote from the official Pokerstars blog statement

I'm sure we'd all prefer this, but the rake matters significantly more to regs than to recs, and you have to remember that recs are the primary target market for Stars to cater for.

Imagine a scratchcard which gave on average 90% expected return for every $ spent, instead of the typical 50-60% return. No "reg" here would be attracted to this scratchcard as it's still -EV regardless, and at the same time, recs in general would not buy more of them as they don't play scratchcards based on what the EV of the scratchcard is. Apply that same reasoning to stuff like spin n gos and that explains why Pokerstars is increasing the rake in these games.

What you're forgetting is that the entire online poker economy is built off the idea that you can actually consistently win at the game. Unlikely lottery tickets or other quick hit forms of gambling, very few online poker players play thinking that they are losing over the long run. If they wanted to play -ev forms of gambling it generally wouldnt be an online poker tournament that requires a large investment of their time. Most think that they are winning players, once you take that idea away you lose the foundation that online poker was built off of.

Yup which is why this is misleading and disingenuous.

Its not an either or.


Most recs would enjoy a fun low rake game over a fun high raked game. Even if they only had more fun by their money lasting longer but not knowing why.

Nothing to do with what i wrote or quoted so....

I completely disagree with this. Sure there will be some deluded people, who despite having no poker experience, automatically assume they're skilled players at the game. But the majority of rec players realise they aren't poker pros, and I know this because I've spoken to a lot of them. They play for the fun and gamble/luck element of the game - obviously they hope to win (who doesn't?), but they don't expect to longterm. As for whether a rec chooses poker over lotto, well it depends on the rec. They may choose poker because they find it more enjoyable and inspiring than just scratching a card, or they may instead choose lotto/scratchcard because it's quicker and easier, requiring less effort.

Yes, except the difference is for a rec, even if they're aware of the rake increase, then essentially it's just like a golf club charging $11 per hour instead of $10 per hour to use the facilities. It's not going to be enough difference in cost to noticeably affect a rec player's playing experience, and most won't care enough to do anything about it. However, the reason why we have so many regs complaining about the rake increases, is because they grind for hours on end at these games, so they depend heavily on how high the rake is to the extent that even a small rake increase could significantly impact their winrate. For some regs, it could mean the difference of tens of thousands of dollars a year. I think the mistake most 2p2 regs make is assuming that recs see the game in the same way that regs do. In reality, the values of recs are completely different, and enjoyment/short-term luck plays a much bigger role than longterm financial goals.

Again nothing to do with what i wrote so....