I wish there was a reasonable way to make a large wager on this.

And no, the world is not full of people who were pushed by their parents. Most people I know didn't have much input from their parents. Most people I've ever met said their parents simply let them do what they wanted to do. None of them are successful.

Also you're making big assumptions if you think I'm not valuing my child's own sense of happiness and satisfaction. You can have both, and I'd argue that you can derive much happiness and satisfaction from being successful in the things you set out to achieve. In fact most people derive their sense of happiness from exactly that.

I'm the happiest guy I know, and I'm not very successful. I'm secure and get paid a good salary and have a perfect home life. I have to get up and go to work at times when I don't want to, but if you think I'd trade that for the ability to sleep in on saturday mornings once in a while and be a pro poker player you're on crack.

I think Wil does represent a parent view very well. He does make a lot of good points but not everyone see's the world like he does and happiness isn't necessarily about having the stereotypical life style. If everyone saw the world the way he does everyone would be an engineer and have a safety net under them all the time. Life does not work that way and no matter what you do there are no guarantees. Without people who take chances life would be very boring. No one would start business's, no one would be a film makers and we wouldn't have a military because most people do not make 30 dollars an hour nor is that necessarily their goal in life. Happiness is an individual thing and not something you can drill into your kids. Following a path simply because its expected of you can lead to a dismal existence.

i admit im lazy to a large degree
by the same token you define success differnly than i would
tons of people work ****loads of hours and make ****loads of money
they buy lots of cool toys they dont need and they dont have the time to enjoy them
personally i dont need 10 cars yatchs jewlery etc
im gonna be dead in 50 years anyway who cares about that ****

work a normal job on someone elses schedule getting 2-3 weeks of vacation a year lol

people SHOULD do what makes them happy if they have no real responsibility
hell i would be a lot happier if i made 1/5th of the money i make now playing minor league baseball for the next 20 years but i dont have the talent to do it

i dont LOVE poker, but i like playing most of the time im playing- and i LOVE it compared to basically any job in the world
lots of pros LOVE poker
make good money doing something you like or make good money doing something you dont

also lolololol if you think most people are making 60k coming out of school w/in 3 years in this economy

I don't want my kids to be pro poker players. But guess what! It's not about what I want. It's about what they want!

If my son wants to be a poker player, a K1 fighter, a ballet dancer, a cook or whatever I won't stand in his way. And I certainly won't try "everything humanly possible" (like you said) to steer them away from it.

I'm teaching my son to think for himself, to have confidence in himself and to pursue whatever he wants to. If he wants to become a poker player I'll sit down with him and tell him what I think about that. And then he'll make the right decision for himself. (And that includes becoming a poker player if he wants to. Even if I don't like it. And I wouldn't want that for him, ever.)

It just shows arrogance that you think you could make the life decisions for your kid. At best he'll be strong enough to fight back. At worst you'll break his spirit and you'll raise a little wuss.

Btw. your focus on money is pretty narrow minded. Just to give you an example. I have very good friends that barely survive (idk probably they make ~20k/yr). One is a musician. The other one a painter/artist. But guess what. They are happy. And they do exactly what they want to. And maybe at some point they'll have "financial" success. I certainly hope so. But I'm pretty sure that none of them would have changed their life choices if they knew how hard it would be. One of them actually cut the relationship to his father. His father tried to force him into the same job that he was doing. His father was worried about this whole "art-thing". They haven't really spoken in 20yrs.

I still have some hope though that your kid is going to teach you a few lessons. My sons sure did and still do.

I'd discourage my son if he became a poker player, ballet dancer or K1 fighter. I'd put up with him being a cook. He's entitled to his life but so am I and I have my own opinions. Part of being a man is standing up on your own two feet and being independent. If you make silly career choices then on your own head be it.

Poker is imo the ultimate challenge, the more you work on ur game the more you make money and its always a motivation and if u r successful enough poker gives you the opportunity to make ur dreams come true and make whatever you want.
On the other hand you can stay at ur 9-5 job and wait half year for ur 2 weeks vacation, repeat it and consume and make more money till ur on ur pension and then enjoy life.
Not saying that 9-5 is bad, some people yeah are lucky enough in this life to work on things they really love to do and that might be 9-5 also.
But poker in general just gives you the freedom of choice to do whatever you want as long as you work on ur game enough to make it happen.
So yeah i would be happy for my son that he would do what he loves and if its poker why not. I would be happy he can enjoy hes life.

Reading comprehension fail?

Children think this way. Adults do not think this way. I'm not trying to be mean, but grow up. When you start having real life responsibilities you start thinking differently, so please don't talk like "you know" when you don't. And tons of people do NOT make a lot of money. The vast majority don't.

Yeah, I'd say your lazy.

Please do a google search on starting engineering degrees or technical degrees or finance/econ degrees for starting salaries in metropolitan areas and report back that you were incorrect.

People tend to make their most important decisions in life in the years they are least able to make that decision. If you believe it's about what your kid wants, then you are a weak parent. You are a parent to protect, teach, and guide your children. Young people like to take the easy route. Working and becoming good at things is hard, why do you think so many people fail at so many things? Because they aren't willing to put in the work to become better at it. You can try to instill the values of hard work and education and have that positive feedback encourage your children, or you can let them be starving artists. You may choose, but please, don't lecture me. I've seen what happens to kids with the nonchalant attitude you have. They don't amount to much.


Really? Like Oscar de la hoya, or Tiger Woods, or other wildly successful people who's parents were very involved in their training/education at very early stages? Yeah, I'd hate to have my kid actually accomplish things. I think I'll just sit them in front of the TV while I go jerkoff all day like most parents I see do.

I don't have a focus on money at all. Money is a part of the equation, but it's not the deciding factor, not in the least bit. If you are very good at what you do you'll probably make money. I've said before that I'd much rather have my kid become a research scientist than an NFL football player. I value one more than the other. One is just a game, another is much more than that. Even if the game pays a much higher salary, I think the satisfaction and honor that comes from having a highly advanced job like that would outweigh the benefits of the money from pro sports. That's me, but in the end I'd probably be ok with it as long as my kid worked extremely hard at whatever he decided he wanted to do.

I'm sure they will, but I don't walk around like I'm in a Disney movie either. The way you talk sure sounds very nice, but in the end you could wind up with a kid with no direction,no drive, no ambition. You may not want to admit it and think very negatively of my views, but it works. I'll take my chances.

I want the best for my kids, as it sounds you do too. I think we'll approach them very differently and get very different results. I'd bet my results will be better, and if I didn't believe that, I wouldn't do it. I'd just "let them do whatever they wished", and then later in life wonder why my kid is coming to me for help with a downpayment on a used car.

not surprised people are getting upset in delusional NVG when you start real talk about life. I remember when I was 21 & clueless.

No need to go to school. Just be a 60k a year waiter/bartender, those jobs are all over the place.

Anyway, if OP's kid is chewy, I have a question.

How does he/she feel about his/her kid profiting from a company that stole money to support said kids lifestyle?

Pm me the answer because I probably won't be revisiting this thread.

60k a year without graduating top in a wanted academics subject simply isn't happening. Maybe it might in bigger cities but for the average American this would be an awesome wage. Why do you think the average household income in America is 55k? Also this is factored in with majority of workers having plenty of experience and probably from an average age of 35 years old.

You better be busting your ass off as a waiter or bartender to come anywhere near 60k as well.

Hi there, base on your situation that I've read. There's no problem playing poker but your concern is on the money where he bet. Even he is a professional poker player, he still needs to listen to your concerns. Hope that would be helpful.

Sorry, incorrect again. I am an adult. I make six figures. My wife makes around 70k. We both drive Kias. Mine is an economy wagon with 75,000 miles, and hers is a minivan with 140,000. I enjoy motorcycling. My motorcycle is 13 years old and has nearly 100,000 miles on it. I live in a house that I paid $148,000 for at the very peak of the real estate boom.

The short story: Personally I don't need 10 cars, yachts, or jewelry. I'm going to be dead in 30 years, so who cares about that ****. I do disagree with P0nzi though...people should try to do what they enjoy doing, even if they do have responsibilities. You only go around once. Meeting your responsibilities is important. So is enjoying life.

Really, you're not portraying an example of a mature adult. You're portraying an example of a materialist. Your two main thoughts in this thread seem to be "I don't really care so much if my kid is happy as long as I'm able to force or humiliate (see the 'laugh in their face' post) him or her into a lucrative career" and "if you don't have a lot of stuff, you're a failure."

Please don't take these posts as insults, as I don't mean them that way. I'm trying to add some perspective because you seem like a mostly reasonable person, and I'm hopeful that if you read these posts and think about them, maybe you'll temper your feelings on the matter at hand.

I am not suggesting that playing poker is for everyone, it is an easy career path, or even that I'd want my kids to try it. I'm saying that how much money you make is a tragically over-emphasized issue in today's society. I'm also saying that if you raise your kids right, they can very well develop a proper sense of responsibility, a solid work ethic, _and_ they can take the path that makes them happy even if it isn't a lucrative one.

only lost souls sit on a table trying to outass other lost souls

you're right most people dont make that much money, youre making my point for me
i dont have any kids- if i did i would work a lot harder
however thats a choice ive made so far
i come and go as i please, ive maxed out a sep ira almost every year I played all from a stupid game
i make a lot more than 30 dollars an hour, but my point still stands
if i made 30 dollars an hour i would play a lot more hours



i live in nyc
sure some people have those degrees and come out making 60k, but its not automatic
and even if it is so what, most of them work 60-80 hours a week
a lot of my friends are 3-5 years out of college
most of them make decent-good money
the ones who like what they do are really happy, the ones who don't aren't

outside of major metro area 30 dollars an hour is a lot of money, especially if you don't have any kids

and yea i am lazy with a lot of things- but its not because I think 2 weeks of vacation is a complete joke
ive seen a lot of nice places that i intedned on going to for 10 days-2 weeks where i stayed a lot long because I didnt want to leave
most people barely have time to enjoy their vacations, they blink and theyre back on a plane going home

now with that said i wouldnt nessasarily want my kid to play poker for a living if i had one
i think other than understanding poker there are a lot of skills needed to make it in this game long term and you need to have a certain type of personality
by the time your kid is 18, 21 or whatever you should know them pretty well
If i knew my kid didnt have the right type of personality and skills needed to be sucessful I would tell them

The one thing I agree with you on is people tend to pick what field they want to go to at the worst possible time for doing so- which includes picking majors they dont like becuase its "automatic" theyll come out making 60k a year

Really? Like Oscar de la hoya, or Tiger Woods, or other wildly successful people who's parents were very involved in their training/education at very early stages? Yeah, I'd hate to have my kid actually accomplish things. I think I'll just sit them in front of the TV while I go jerkoff all day like most parents I see do.


Really this is who we pick? If you work hard you can be as good as Tiger Woods lmao
I always worked my ass off at baseball because I loved playing
I didnt think i was making the major leagues
I still play in a few leagues now
Im naturally much better at basketball, but basketball was something I wanted to do some days and didnt care about other days
Practicing every day for a team in basketball would be torture for me
In 4 years of college I never missed a baseball practice,was always early and always did extra work on my own after

I know 2 brothers both with really really good parents
One is about 6'5 and lazy as hell
The other is about 5'9 and works his ass off
The both played d1 baseball
The 6'5 one played in the minor leagues and never hustled or tried hard
The other one worked his ass off but just wasnt good enough to go farther than college
I seriously hate seeing someone waste talent like the 6'5 did- but they were both raised the same
I agree parents are important, but it didnt matter what parents he had he was always going to be a lazy sack of **** when it came to baseball because growing up he was always so much better than everyone else and he just didnt care enough to work harder

The athletes I always love watching (and on a much lower level playing with) with the ones who were naturally better than almost everyone but still always worked hard always hustled etc

if someone is a starving artist and theyre happy doing what they do and dont leech off anyone good for them
if theyre some self entitled prick begging their parents and friends for money then **** them

if they have kids they cant afford to take care of then they need a real job

Google is your friend.


The tech fields are what's driving salaries and offers, and the top students are faring quite well," said Emanuel Contomanolis, who runs RIT's career center.

Specifically, engineering diplomas account for 12 of the 15 the top-paying majors. NACE collects its data by surveying 200 college career centers.

Other highly-paid engineering majors include chemical engineers, who employ their skills to make everything from plastics to fuel cells and have an average starting offer of $64,902.

Mining engineers start at $64,404 on average, while computer engineers, who have an expertise in both coding and electrical engineering, pocket roughly $61,738 their first year out of

For computer science majors, who specialize in programming and software, the average salary was $61,407. Graduates with degrees in actuarial science took home about $56,320; and jobs for students in construction management paid about $53,199. Each of these fields has paid well throughout the years, Koc said.

The average salary for some professions is going up. The college class of 2011's average starting salary is $51,018, up from $48,661 last year, according to a report from the National Association of Colleges and Employers , NACE. Twice a year, NACE surveys its 900 member employers and 1,800 colleges and universities to come up with a list of top-paying college majors and their corresponding average salary offers.

----------------------------------------------------------

Once again, lets put that in perspective. 22 year olds with a good degree start anywhere between 48-56k. Guess what? That "I'm happy because I can do what I want" kid with the arts major degree who works at Starbucks and does photography on the side isn't cutting it.

Lets get real here ok? You can have opinions, but please don't just make things up. Use facts.

I do disagree with P0nzi though...people should try to do what they enjoy doing, even if they do have responsibilities. You only go around once. Meeting your responsibilities is important. So is enjoying life.


I agree with this-but your priorities should drastically change when you have kids

#1, I don't get butthurt. Its the internet, I'm used to it. Trust me, I learned a long time ago to not listen to the opinions of the masses. The masses are idiots, I'm surprised many of them can function in a normal society, and by some of the posts and threads on these boards you can tell many people are having trouble with even that.

I'm not a materialist at all. I'm a realist. I've already said that money is a secondary thing, but if you're going to sit here and say it's not important than I'd say you're a fool. Studies have shown what most adults already know - that there IS a salary range where people are miserable and anxious all the time about money. That's <50k (approx). Above 75k people tend to not get much happier as their salary goes up, which makes sense. The bottom line is the benefits of having a higher paying job is that it gives you the ability to do things and to provide resources for your family. This, in itself, is the feeling of "freedom".

People are confusing this whole "I don't have to wake up to a schedule lol" idea to freedom. I've been "free" before, without a job, and with a little bit of money saved up. I was absolutely miserable. I was anxious all the time and pretty much a nervous wreck.

Now? I work 45-55 hours a week and have to work nights and weekends a few times a month. When do you think I was happier? When I could do whatever I want, or now that I have a job and have to go bust my butt?

I'm 1,000% happier now with a job. I make >90k. I have a great home life. I have "things", but they don't really make me happy. What makes me happy is that I'm stable and able to provide whatever I need for my family. I have a kid coming and I'm not worried in the least bit financially, we have plenty of money. I'm not worried about saving for the kid's college tuition, I"m not worried about making the mortgage payments, I'm not worried about giving my parents or my wife's parents money if they need it.

I don't have yachts, I don't even have a brand new car. But I have peace of mind and security for myself and my loved ones. Like I said, I'm the happiest person I know, and people have said that to me to my face. When asked, I say "I don't have any problems in life, why wouldn't I be happy?".

Look, what works for you or someone else is fine, it's your life (or your kid's). But when I see the constant posts of people who go busto and are borderline suicidal or all the posts of people who now want to go look for a real job and can't get one because they never finished school and played poker for the last 6 years, it pretty much confirms what I've thought all along. Playing poker for a living, for me, would suck.

if you go busto you're a ****ing idiot and were never a pro to begin with
you either suck and hit some big tourny score, or you play way higher than you can afford to play, hit a bad run and bye bye money

P0nzi I know you're very successful. You are one of the few exceptions. The only reason I ever went pro is because I was one of the exceptions. I played poker full-time to get out from underneath ridiculous school debt and secure my financial future. There's quite a difference between playing mid-high stakes and going "pro" when you're grinding $0.25/$0.50 like majority of the failures.