I do agree with Leatherass and Moonshine had a very nice post.

The only thing that bothers me is that I think Leatherass is shortstacking NL5k sometimes or rather just buyin to cover the fish. Other than that he is right.

On the unethical argument, i think that is plain horse****.

Poker is all about taking money from weaker players. Fullstackers are better players than fish, and they also use HUDs and multitable. Imagine if a fish saw the setup of 90% of his opponents. Multiple giant monitors with 4-24 tables and detailed stats superimposed on the tables breaking down exactly how he plays. How would the fish feel if he knew his opponent kept a database of every hand he had ever played with the fish, and used software to organize and display this info in real time?

You guys think that is fine but somehow a person using stack size to get a 1bb/100 edge on a fullstacker is a crime against humanity. Get real. Poker is like warfare, anything goes. The sites set the rules. There is no higher code of ethics. If you don't like someone's practices don't play with them.

as soon as the door opens about something being done about "short stackers", no doubt another 'special interest group', such as the B&M players, will want to "do something" about HUD's/PT/HEM, etc... a slickery slope indeed.

I thought he was a hypocrite because he shorted a year ago, this adds a whole new level.

You're a joke...how about a 1 mirrion dollar challenge for you to teach a ten year old in 2 days how to be a winning short stacker?

Put ur mulahs where ur mouth is, you stand by your points!

EDIT: would love to see said chart that deals with post flop play when villians decide to just call. LOLZ

My apologizes for assuming... Your post didn't have a lot of detail so I did not understand if you were fine with the SSers or just did not agree with LA logic on the issue... I should also mention that even though I did quote you (again apologizes) I was more talking about the overall responses of people in the thread -

I am really not trying to agree with LAs OP more just stating that even though he may not have gone about it the right way - he does have a point...

Table selection is when you want to play poker you start your session by looking for and joining the best AVAILABLE tables. I.e. you pick a table with 2 fish and 3 regs over a table with 5 regs.

Bumhunting is where you will not sit in on a game unless there is a mark, and when the mark is busted, you insta sit out until a new fish joins the game. This is what leatherass does and it's obv. horrible for the games.




I also want to say from a personal perspective, I really don't like shortstackers, but I think leathers post is ridiculous and his opinion is so biased/out of whack I almost hoped the OP was a level, now that I see it isn't I know he's even more of a loser than I originally thought. I mean leather thinks shortstackers "need to learn the game and stop playing from a chart" but he teaches people to play his same robotic ABC-tag style that pretty much anyone could learn. In addition he refuses to give action to anyone who's not a complete drooler. I don't see the laggy HS players coming and making threads saying that leatherass and the other bumhunters shouldn't be able to play 15/14 and ruin the action by nitting the game up. The whole argument is just absurd.

I don't think focusing on min buyin is the way to go if you want to go after shortstacking. Go after the ratholing. Make people who leave a table with less than 40 BB buy in for at least that amount at any table at the same limit for the next 8 hours.

It won't eliminate short stacking (and there is no reason to do so since many recreational players enjoy buying in shorter) but it will make it much harder to constantly rathole for hours on end. This solution (should you feel this is a problem that actually requires a solution) directly targets the 20 BB shovebots and will have little effect on recreational players.

This Leatherass guy basically has to be just one big level.

No I don't short stack obv. If I had been doing that for a living, I'm pretty sure there would've already been some rediculous thread about it within like an hour from the time I had 15 short stacked tables going. People can show random HH, like the one in this thread which is actually true. But what it doesn't show was that I had $5k at the table from the hand before and lost a big pot. From there I will admit, I played a hand short stacked

I just looked at the 5/10 games at Stars and right at this very moment the games are exactly as I fear. Every list has 10 people on it and every available game is nearly 100% short stackers. If anyone is reading this right now, take a look. Imagine you are a recreational player looking for a 5/10 game where people aren't shortstacked. Good luck.

quit complaining and explain this!!!!!!!

You're Welcome!

I've heard this said many times before. Used to have alot of respect for OP, now all I think that he must be some kind of level that Stox have put out.

If not, then seriously, Stox needs to rethink it's marketing strategy having OP as a lead coach. With what he's saying, it doesn't really make sense since another Stox coach (Ed Miller) teaches SSing strategy.

Confirmed - Every non 50 bb table is almost all SS - the funny thing is the only 2 games with no SS (that arent 50bb) have 15+ waitlist - very attractive for random players...

I am going to give up now - I can't make people see what they don't want to