are you seriously trying to sound intelligent when you go through my posts and can't figure out that 2012 was 2 years ago?

It said old post, didn't it?

I do not think it is raked higher there are just more players who have worked out the value of opening any hand (almost) which in turn has stop ed the fast folding pussy's who only played 5-8% range so more three bet pre and 3-4 way all ins, or pot odds that make it hard to get anyone out with giving the not so good players or short stacking limper's too much value to fold most flops, which is a plus and a negative.

More contested pots so the no flop no drop does not come into play in zoom no more easy blind steal.


I think zoom is the only one i would argue rake should be reduced across all stakes (would like less full stop but who would not) i started getting sick of seeing how much more money than me pokerstars had earned in a zoom session and it seems to just get higher % wise, maybe i am just rubbish.


If they could stop people instantly quiting after winning a buy in then buying back in short or full (short they can only do it a few times now before it has to be full buy in) or/and make it so each stake has groups of 18-36 players and you have to play x amount of hands or go bust i think it would be very good for poker.

20-30 min before you can leave and get a new group? and a different group for each entry?


If the pots are going to be so much higher than same stakes standard ring and have all the aggressive/action players should the rake not be lower? it probably works out that stars get more of the not so good players money before they go bust which is what they want.

Pity i like the game but rake has pushed me out of playing it as much as i used to, guess it is good it teaches people to open their range up and try and play not just wait and play lotto poker.

left stars after getting raped at PLO25 Zoom, which by the way is a massive rake trap, forcing people to play like robots which benefits no-one but Stars,

playing on Betfair with 50% rakeback, its beautiful

Solid point. I couldn't read because of the lack of interpunction.

I don't get why you think that zoom has more action and bigger pots. Aren't there less players otf @ zoom and tighter players overall?

Why do people have to play like robots?

just quit poker

Indeed. I don't have a significant sample for Stars, but on iPoker's Speed Tables, I pay less rake per 1000 hands than on regular tables purely because fast-fold games are nittier and less likely to be multiway. Fast-fold formats tend to have smaller pots, in my experience, and lower winrates too. Rush/Zoom/Fast-fold formats probably harm the poker economy more than regular tables. Remember that the word "nit" means parasite. "Nitty" may well be the most profitable way to play Zoom, but it's killing the fish.

it won't happen with an attitude that won't happen? it won't happen in reality.

why should i ignore something i disagree with on a forum i frequent that I think is misguided at best?

i mean it would me nice if we lived in fantasy land where everyone else sucked at poker and poker sites raked next to nothing and we could make heeps of money with ease but that will never be the case.

you have to look at it from every side, which means the sides of

regs
recs
potential future players
the poker sites

which almost nobody on here does. they look at it from 100 pct of the perspective of a short side reg.

guess what- most of the things regs have asked for and gotten over the years have been terrible for the games, probably helped them short term and hurts them long term.

btw out of curiosity i've checked my last 65k hands on bovada (i live in the us)
i've paid about 11,000 dollars in rake- so excuse me if i don't feel bad for someone who paid 400 dollars to play the same amount of hands bc he chose to play for tiny stakes.so i'm paying almost 30 times as much for the same service you get and it really doesnt cost the sites that much more to spread high games as it does to spread low games. boo hoo at the 400 dollars you paid.

i won't even get into what i spent since black friday on hotels flights car rentals etc

there are very few hobbies you can make money at in the world.
to play 10nl you need what maybe 500 dollars max?
forget poker for a second- how realistic do you think it is to take 500 dollars, play a game and expect to make tons of money from it?

at the end of the day having a hobby where the op took next to no money, played a ton of hands and even came out with some money at the end isnt a bad thing


it's funny that people thing rake is the long term problem. they want to have their cake and eat it too. let me play tons of tables with all kinds of software doing everything possible to destroy the games and make them as boring as possible for bad and new players then whah the rake sucks !
give me a break.
when you have people 20 tabling 10nl with huds studying taking it seriously to grind out 40 cents an hour the games are gonna suck period.

rake is actually way lower than it was during the poker boom for most sites (ironically not the one site i play on) when you factor in rakeback

lowering rake doesnt happen in a vacuum- often times sites and casinos with higher rake within reason have by far the best games, and those with great rakeback (such as treasure island in vegas, or wsex a few years ago) have by far the worst games.people are making a mistake when they paid x dollars in rake and assume if the rake had been half of x dollars they would currently have .5x more dollars.that would be like a casino assuming if they doubled the house edge in roulette they would make twice as much money forever.

The economy is that when one gets good enough, one wins money, collects roll and starts to make shots above. What could be added that one is generally not to be allowed to play mostly limit and form below what one already can beat, when it comes to micro and low limits. Being the better way to segregate.

I agree with your post. We are blessed to even have the possibility to play poker for money. Maybe I'm spoiled and it might be a fantasy that it's ever gonna get better than this.

However, I don't think it's too far away to see a bitcoin rake-free site popup. Heck, it might already exist. And as soon the snowball get's rolling, who knows what's gonna happen. (UIGEA doesn't affect bitcoins either, which is huge.)

No joke, I'd say $2 nl on ACR is about the same as $50 nl on stars pre black Friday.

the games are pretty much terrible from march to september, hopefully its a long cold winter in europe and fish have nothing to do but stay home get drunk and spew chips

How so exactly?

i posted earlier i was wrong micros arent beatable no sane person can play that low and give a **** about the game. i was playing micros and forgot because i was watching space balls thats how ****ty it is. who can fold to a 50 cent raise. what a astronomical waste of time. it would be better ev looking for change in a mall parking lot. **** the micros.

If they were able and willing to run their site on a tiny fraction of the revenue they generate now, sure.

Micros are f-cked. TBH IMO the whole industry is a bunch of scammers creating a false image of "safe and trusted" gaming environment. All these gaming commissions and **** talk about how secure and safe everything is. It's mostly bs to get YOUR money and possibly run away with it and hide themselves behind some ****ed up legal contracts.

I don't know how many times we have to go over this in these forums.

Poker is increasingly global, but the center of the game is still in the USA. USA players can't play right now, which makes the games infinitely tougher.

I live overseas but when I do visit my parents in NJ I can tell from just a few thousand hands that the level of play is much lower than on PS ATM.

Also, the state of the global economy is always under-represented in these posts. This is not a polititard derail.

I graduated from a well regarded law school in the US in 2010 and many of my friends struggle financially with low-paying jobs and high debt burdens. I'm not here to argue why. The fact is it is a reality being felt across the gaming industry.

When a large amount of USA 22-35 year olds are living paycheck to paycheck and feel insecure that they will have a job tomorrow even in a "professional" field like law, the entertainment economy suffers.

That's what's going on. Giving players an extra 2bb/100 or not is not what is making or breaking the poker economy.

"It's THE economy, stupid."

Calculated the winrates from the Russian PTR site for 25nl Zoom - what do people think of these?

U been into poker since 2006 OP and still stuck in micros? Obv u should look urself in the mirror and ask yourself wtf am i doing?????

^^^ Post more nlhe zoom winrates from russian ptr plz, not all of us have access to that website & ide love to see the winners winrates for pretty much all limits. Pm me if you dont wanna post em here plz.

The thread the numbers are in has already been linked above. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...-zoom-1461881/

It's pretty depressing reading. Very few grinders on Stars are making 5bb/100 even after VPP "rakeback".

last time i played on Stars was 3 years ago.
My main site is 888... **** rakeback system, High rake and max table limit of 6 tables but micros beatable for 10-15bb/100 due to awful players.

Cashed in a few bucks on Stars today and played a few thousand hands of NL5 fullring. What the Hell... on Average ~6 Nits/TAGs, 1 LAG, 1 Fish...

Instacashed out.

Stars is nothing compare to 888 / Party