good point, i agree.

for those who play merge, how has it been since the tables have been eliminated?

only 9 tables per limit now for a total of 18 possible hu tables. gonna be a bloodbath.

I'm not a hu player so forgive my ignorance, but can't you simply open multiple tables at the same stake? I'm not sure how this limits the # of games you can play at the same time.

For the 6 Max and FR guys this is a clear no brainer...trying to understand how this negatively affects the hu player.

Not sure how else I can explain it. There are nine possible hu tables per limit. If nine are already open when you log on, there is no place to sit down besides playing regs. No seat, no game. So basically 30+regs fighting each other for 9 seats at low-mid-stakes where the rake is absolutely brutal already. Other sites have limited number of tables as well, but they also have more limits and better rake structure. At 5T I doubt any reg can beat another reg plus the Merge rake for any kind of reasonable profit. Thus, bloodbath.

Makes sense.........Hopefully the rake decrease when it is announced will mitigate this to some degree.

People for years have been saying that a "king of the hill" format would be good. I guess we'll get to see. The HU lobbies have gotten horrible over the last few years. Perhaps NVG is a poor place to have the discussion but given the state of the game, it seems like eliminating HU tables might be a good idea for smaller sites. Since that tends to spill into HU regs sitting solo on 6m and FR tables while applying HU game selection, maybe it won't fix anything.

As far as 6m and FR games go, eliminating limits too close together is a very good idea. Cake is the perfect example of a site that doesn't get it.

Totally agree with everything. I get the higher stakes games but why they would remove 4-8 and 6-12 is beyond me and their explanation of consolidating limits makes zero sense as there isn't really a player pool for HU, people just randomly play it. Removing games like that is not going to make those players go play ring games or higher stakes HU, they will likely either just not play or move to Revolution. I had stopped sitting @3-6 a few months ago but now I am back sitting @ 3-6 and I'm sure others are doing the same. How is that good for the player pool when they force good players down to even lower limits to get games?

I sent a suggestion to Kahn yesterday that I will share here. I think it is a perfect solution to HU but I know it will never happen. Remove all HU tables and instead allow players to be able to create up to 3 HU tables and make every incremental limit available. The players would then fill the niches at the different limits depending how many other regs are waiting and it would keep the better players off of the lower limits.

Removing the limits would make more sense if they had 4-8 and 6-12 ring games but they don't and they didn't remove any ring game limits, just HU limits.

I must be thinking of Cake. They offer every limit under the sun.

I also find it funny that they have 10-20 to be the highest limit for fixed and NL. I don't play much NL but I am guessing 10-20 nl plays more like 30-60 or 50-100 fixed limit in terms of swings, maybe even higher. Also why do they allow so many more tabels per limit at NL compared to fixed?

I opened up my cake lobby yesterday for the first time in months. Wonder how many other people are doing the same after this Merge move.

Yea, I don't mind the KotH too much on other sites and have no problem playing regs. The main issue is that when you limit the games to 10/20 and below and force people of similar skill to play each other the rake is just going to destroy your soul.

This is a rake graph from Giant Buddha on drag the bar:



The yellow is the extra rake that Merge is bringing in from these games compared to Cake. Compared to Stars it's even worse. We are talking 80-90% more rake per hand in some cases. The only limits where you can make any kind of real money playing regs is 10/20+, most of which they have eliminated.

Color me skeptical on their "coming very soon" rake changes.

Lol ....

If your point is that Merge currently is a bad place to play LHE, it would be impossible to argue with you. The Carbon rep has been saying repeatedly that LHE will get better after the changes. Like you, I'll believe it to be good when I see it. If you're trying to make a living on US facing sites, your poker skills and stick-to-it-ness amazes me.

Agreed. 10/20 limit is probably more like 1/2NL in terms of swings (+- $4000 with $1000 being a good night).

We can't afford to be too choosy in this economic climate. Back in the day, most of my gameplay was on FT which was arguably the toughest hu limit site. I just loved that software. Now I play on seven sites and I play anyone who sits at mid-high with the exception of Merge due to the rake. Even with this many nets in the water I might only get 15k hands a month. So when some dumbass takes away four of my nets to make a lobby a little prettier that is a big deal.

good. i havent logged on in a few weeks since ive been busy playing live but hearing this definitely increases my chances of logging on to play when im bored. i cant imagine any of you actually believe that certain players/fish logged on wanting to play 4/8 or 6/12 but wouldnt settle for 5/10 but if you do actually believe that, let me set aside your worries and just tell you that youre really stupid. the reality is that doing this will make it more likely for actual poker games to get started instead of letting you losers cherrypick live ones hu. i understand game selection is a skill in poker but you people all (all) take it to such unbelievable low and scummy levels that any action a poker site takes to make hu games be less readily available is fantastic for the longevity of the games.

maybe some of you guys will actually play me hu now when i sit at your tables, im still stuck like 3bb/100 over 10k hands on ptr, the fact that 100% of players sit out vs me at 5/10 and 10/20 is pitiful

why does every reg in this thread claim everyone else is a bumhunter who always sits out??

someone might be lying..

im not a reg and im not a hu player but every time i have logged on and i have tried to start 10/20 lhe games by playing a reg hu they will just straight up sit out about 90% of the time. if they dont do that they will generally quit me after their button if they are winning after literally 2-3 hands. i have had a couple of them play me for 5-10 (10 is probably exaggerating) minutes which is often all it takes to get a full 6max game going. i have had exactly 1 person play me for more than 15 minutes, probably only because he was tilted that i was curb stomping him into oblivion since now he just sits out.

i understand that poker is about making money the best way you can but the hu lhe economy has gone from a respectable group of ppl grinding hard to make their money to a bunch of lowlife bottom feeders scraping the bottom of the barrel for the last few bread crumbs they can find as they all slowly starve to death. i am literally stuck over 3bb/100 in my lhe sample on ptr so that fact that nobody will play me is comical. i guess maybe they know they all have the worst of it and have godmoded me in 6max, maybe they dont like that i dont open limp on the button or go all in preflop for 50 bets with 7 high, i dont really know. and before some doofus comes in to offer me hu4rollz at 10/20 to wave his epeen around, no, its not happening. i dont need to play 10/20 lhe against some random internet spazz to make ends meet, i log on when im bored bc i dont have a real poker game to play

I have absolutely no association with Merge other than playing there. However, my experience with them as far as changing formats has if anything been positive. Merge listened to SNG grinders and fixed the format/rake for both 6max hypers and HU hypers. If anything they made changes that were both positive in the structure and positive for the ecosystem.

I expect that they will in fact fix the rake if they have said that they will. Merge is slow sometimes, but if anything they have demonstrated in the past that they are listening and have been more than willing to take the positive features of other sites and incorporate them if their game structure was inferior and players wanted a change.

For now I would say, make sure your voices are heard about the rake and make sure they know that you want it changed. If past history is any indicator they will change it.

zero

doesn't hold much meaning to you anyway so

HU games are terrible for the online poker economy.

FYP

Its been a bloodbath for a long time. DUCY?

Ah no, there are plenty of fish that get eaten alive, so why play any reg?