The Houston room (presuming we are still discussing Clive's place) allows tipping but ONLY using the tip tokes purchased in advance. The $1 chips and cash may not be used to tip during play.

Game girl may be tipped cash or with tip tokes. The $1 chips are not supposed to leave the table to tip her...

What's a "game girl"

usually a young attractive girl working for tips. at a minimum they serve food, drinks and keep the place tidy during the game. others hustle a little more and might give massages or cook for the game for extra $.

Comments:
1. Why not have a second location away from poker to do chip money transactions? You go there and buy chips and tonkens, and then take them to the poker room and play and tip as you disire. The chips are just chips and have no actual currency value while at this location. When you decide to leave, take chips back to purchase location and exchange for value. This means there is no cash exchanges happening at the card room. It shouldn't be against the law for selling chips if you have DBA. You just have a flexible return policy and that shouldn't be illegal. Maybe this could be a loop hole. If so I patten the idea on this day 28 September 2016.

Thanks for some feedback

You cant claim a patent on a discussion board. You have to go to the patent office.
That being said, the cash does not make the game illegal. What makes the game illegal is if anyone profits from the running of the game. This includes the dealers, game girls and of course the actual gamerunner.
Only true home games, where no one profits other than their own personal winnings, are legal in Texas.

^^^ this might be genius .. I thought I had seen or thought of all possible models. Might just be enough to dance around laws in in many states in addition to TX.

Reference Japan where no casinos are allowed yet they have a massive slot machine market. What you suggest is exactly how it works there

Google pachinko machines Japan

Paying the membership fees so the owner can pay rent, keep the lights on, pay for tables and chairs probably doesn't leave much profit. Buying the chips at the other business doesn't mean there's going to be a profit at the card game location that lets you us those chips to play cards.

Yeah I heard something about that in Japan. Something about purchasing marbles or steel ball or something like that. Then take them to second location and purchase some type of cheesy item and the return the item for a cash back refund.

Multiple problems present themselves there, most critically the overhead associated with an off-site location and the nuisance created to the players. The more steps you add before cards are in the air, the less likely many are willing to show up and play.

Can you imagine the new player who hears about the place and walks in only to be told "umm...yeah...you need to go to X location to get chips...and if you cash out, you will need to go back there again." New player will likely say eff this and never be seen again. And, if you have a higher stakes game running, you also increase the opportunity for someone to get jacked...

^^^

All astute and valid points. Especially creating any barriers to entry for new, players

I believe this idea could be directionally correct though


Also if combined with "no purchase necessary sweepstakes" laws could develop into a legal model where anti side would have to change a law to stop. Law Changes take forever

Anyone that wants to dive deeper, research the sweepstakes slot machines that got installed all over NC and Ohio

these were 20-50 machine slot parlors operating in quasi - legal mode under current "no purchase necessary sweepstakes " laws

These laws are on the books in every state, and for example is what allows McDonald's and such to give away a million dollars with their monopoly promotion

It took the state of NC several years to figure out how to shut those places down without also outlawing McDonald's type marketing promotions

While I was against this strategy to open up socially problematic slot parlors (mostly in poorer neighborhoods), I would love to see this strat applied to open legal poker rooms in several states with the right mix of gaming and sweepstakes laws

I gotta believe there are many states (certainly not all) where this might work.

The private games in Dallas are much better than any casino games.

The second location could be located close by or even next door. It would be doing busines under another DBA. This would also maybe cut down or eliminate the chances of the card room being targeted since theres no cash in the card room. Didn't really want put my whole business plan out there but I am looking for feedback.

I think they already do this for those slot machine places around town.

Comment: since there's no money exchanging going on at card house, but just those chips you bought at the other location next store. Im thinking maybe since those chips have no value while in the card room you could toss some to dealers/ waitress or the card room could "rake". Or you could purchase lets a bead bracelet at the chip location and use those beads to give to dealers and wait staff and they could redeem them at the chip location for refund.

TX has a unique situation to others states . Google "eight liners Texas" . And yes it has do with awarding prizes" vs cash

Ftr , putting slot machines in lower income areas is pretty sleezy IMO but with unregulated and obscene hold percentages can make a lot of money for the house and basically just rapes the players

1) let's presume it is just in the suite next door...you STILL have the additional overhead. Leasing agents aren't going to give the space for free and the staff are not going to work for free and the utilities are not going to provide the electric and water for free just because you have the property next door. Ditto on the insurance premiums...

2) doing it next door actually makes the case easier for the prosecutor who elects to take the room on since it illustrates a deliberate intent to try and circumvent Texas law.

3) such a plan does not deter would-be thieves given that the common presumption is that poker room=lots of money in possession of players.

1. Let's say the overhead shouldn't be a problem. Your creating a place to allow people to play cards. Most if not all understand it's a business and a business needs to make money to pay for the overhead to allow them to have a place to play.

2. Second location didn't have to be exactly next door, but pretty close by. Yes some of it sounds a little inconvenient but a lot players will understand and deal with it to be able play poker. This is why I'm digging for answers and questions, trying to see how much of a grey area is there if any.

3. Of course with any business it would have to be extra aware and have tight security. The second location could be designed in a safe manor. Maybe even no direct contact with people other than behind a slotted steel door.

So you just proved up the DA's allegation...someone is deriving a benefit.

Let's go back and look at the misdemeanor of 'keeping a gambling place' as found in the Texas Penal Code...

Each of the three elements is in play...by running it as a defacto private club, you MAY get around (1) although then you might have to defend the issue of public versus private the moment someone files an ADA claim and asserts that your location was arguably public. (3) is something that has merit as a defense, especially with some courts having held that it is a skill game. However, if you are running it as a business, then, under (2) a person is receiving an 'economic benefit' other than personal winnings.

Remember also that 'gambling place' is defined as "(3) "Gambling place" means any real estate, building, room, tent, vehicle, boat, or other property whatsoever, one of the uses of which is the making or settling of bets, bookmaking, or the conducting of a lottery or the playing of gambling devices."

The establishment of a second location sends up the flare that you are aware that the poker room is on legally murky ground and that you are deliberately seeking to circumvent the statute.

oh yeah, THAT will never attract law enforcement...

I get what you want to do by piggy-backing on the efforts of the Houston and Austin rooms (and perhaps others I missed in this thread) and I absolutely agree that the statutes should be revised. But, it rarely works well when you take steps to openly thumb your nose at the statute by opening a second location to deal with chips and cash-outs. Quite honestly, I would not even contemplate playing somewhere that required me to get chips and cash out off-site...I don't want to have to be driving with racks in the car.

Is this the same Clive that used to run games out of his house? Skinny guy? Used to play at the JPCS a lot?

Not sure what JPCS is, but how many Clive's running poker games can there be in Houston Still runs out of house in addition to the club...

Speaking of the Club...spots just started running on the Houston ESPN radio channel. Listened to one of the spots yesterday and also got to speak with Fred and Henry last night.

The JPCS was one of the best run tournaments that was being run in and around that area back in the day. Clive used to play there a ton. Interesting to see that he opened up a place.

Thanks for the information!

Yes Gypsie - It is I - Still hosting - hope all is well with you

Its called Pachinko - there are sections of Tokyo (Shinjuku) that have blocks and blocks of nothing but these games

Just want to pause a minute and recognize that OP posted this question in March of 2015 and Texas Card House opened in, I believe, February of 2015. At this point they have been operating completely in the open for 21 months as far as I'm aware, no interference from police or authorities.

To answer OP's original question, yes at this point it definitely looks like it's possible. Alamo Card House in San Antonio is going on a year now with the exact same model.

Now I think the concern is what happens when enterprising folk start building large 10+ table card rooms that rival casinos. Once a large card club opens in DFW and it starts impacting travel to Winstar and Choctaw, it will be interesting to see how they react. At some point I suspect the true legality will be tested in court and it will be up to a judge whether membership and seat rental fees constitute an "economic benefit" directly related to the game itself as per the Texas penal code.

Unfortunately since Oklahoma and Louisiana casinos pour money into Texas politics to ensure that gambling stays illegal in Texas, I don't see that going well for Texas card clubs - but we can hope.

^^^ very well put and spot on