well then your an idiot

This raises a question I have yet to see addressed by anyone.

If the high stakes cash games on UB were consistently being cheated by super users from 2004 forward then how likely is it really that anyone who managed to win meaningful amounts of money in these cash games wasn't at some level a part of the scam?

I can believe that players occasionally lucked into games that just didn't happen to have super users playing that day and I can believe that every once in a while for short periods of time a player ran good enough to win even against super users, but how do you explain the several examples of players who won large amounts of money over long periods of time in UB's high stakes cash games all while these same games were being cheated by super users?

How, exactly, are we supposed to believe they managed to pull it off?

If there wasn't some agreement among the super user accounts to not cheat these players I don't see how it's possible. Even eventually losing the winnings back to the super users doesn't explain why they were "allowed" to win in the first place.

AND YET SOME DID WIN!!!! HOW???

Anyone want to take a shot at explaining that?

boohoo did I hurt your little feelings?

Interview with Joe in show going up Tuesday

please leave.

Looking forward to this. You and Mike have been great on this issue. Keep up the good work.

Lol, so let me get this straight....on one side we have Phil Helmuth, Annie "stinky feet" Duke, Tiffany "greasy fingers" Michelle, Joe "zero play" Sebok, and Scott "jocksniffer" Diamond and on the other side we have all the "losers" from 2+2 who singlehandedly exposed this scandal in the first place?

Tough call on which side is more credible....poker community, lol.

NAMBLA has more credibility than UB.

I think this decision is a very bad one for Joe obv.

There seem to be some expectation that Joe may single handedly get some things done with respect to getting more information disclosed on this scandal.

Now I am not an expert on the UB hierarchy here, but wtf, wouldn't Annie Duke and Phil Hellmuth be alot higher up the food change. If they have done nothing to effect transparency in this whole thing how can we expect Joe to do it? He is the lamb going to slaughter here. Duke and Hellmuth should have forced this issue months ago.

Joe getting anything done is hopeful yet wishful thinking!

Since Joe will not be able to get anything done for his fellow poker community
in regards to this UB cheating situtaion, he has made a huge error in getting involved with this site. It will follow him wherever he goes. For his sake, I hope he has Hellmuth's thick skin.

if UB contacts you with a 4million dollar contact for you to wear a piece of cloth with a little UB logo on it.. you wont do it? dude get serious.. in the end its all about making money and feeding the family

lol 4 million dollar. WTF did you get that number? He's probably not getting 1/10 of that.

Never go full blown ******.....

Funny thread, if you don't join the UB hate bandwagon you're a troll. Reminds me of Bush's "you're with us or with the terrorists".

This, lots of hypocrites in here.

i think you just have low morals.

what youre saying is that for the right amount of money you would join al cia-duh.

i'm still wondering where you guys got the idea that this was a multi million dollar deal, lol.
Some of you ******s are acting like Sebok just got an endorsement deal on par with what Phelps got after winning 8 friggin gold medals. Are you idiots so out of touch in your little insulated online poker world that you are now equating an UB sponsorship to getting your face on a box of Wheaties??

Morons

In Seboks case he got his face on a box of Cheaties.

Sorry Money300, just stop posting. You haven't made one good point in this thread, just a string of ******ed ramblings. (omg you all would dos it, yas nos it) The 4 mirron contract was just the icing on the cake. Please, just stop.

Let's see how the last big UB signings worked out....

Rizen...
Bax.....
Sebok....
Seems like a great move by Sebok attaching his name to such a solid company. UB definately seems to be a great company to promote and clearly on the up-and-up. Hope you got paid upfront and waited for the check to clear Joe.

Listening to the interview right now -- Sebok is such a joker.

I'd have respect for him if he just said, "Hey, I'm doing it for the money." Instead, he is acting as if he is on a crusade on behalf of the poker community. I can't get behind a crusader who is paid by the company he is supposedly crusading against.

I'm so sick of people saying this. It's BS. If he came out and said "hey, they offered me a bunch of money and I took it" people would think he is the biggest douchebag of all time (yeah I know, many of you feel that way about him already) Feel the way you want about the situation but can we stop pretending like it would have been more respectable to say this. It should be obvious to everyone that he did it for the money, so obvious that he doesn't need to say it. But it's also important to note that, to me at least, Joe is not a "cash grab guy", and this is clearly not just about the money.

so whats your good point? boo hoo Joe is a sell out.. that's your point?

Joe Sebok is Grown ass man.. and he does w.e he wants with his life.. his not here to satisfy your likings.. if he decided that for his life singing a contract with that particular poker site than let him be, why does that concern you?

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why you poasting here Mny300 gtf out of NVG

I think he is intentionally obfuscating the fact that his only motivation is cash. He wants us (and probably himself) to believe that signing with UB is a selfless act on behalf of the poker community. Yet, all of the evidence indicates otherwise:

1.) Pokerroad is probably not even profitable, and if it is, Joe is not earning a substantial income from it.

2.) A sucky tourney donk as it is (as Ike Haxton exposed), Joe can't possibly be profitable while spending most of his time on pokerroad.

3.) His own father and business partner is so incensed with the UB debacle that he refuses to allow pokerroad to accept their ad dollars.

4.) UB is obviously his only sponsorship opportunity, or he would have already signed with another site. Alternatively, other sites may have offered him sponsorship deals but UB was the highest bidder. Either way, it's all about the $$$$.

5.) As I mentioned before, you can't fund a crusade with $ from the company you are supposedly crusading against.

6.) While Joe may view himself as an influential member of the poker community, I strongly doubt that most of the community agrees. For starters, the guy is not an online player, has had ZERO presence in any of the 2+2 UB/AP threads and his radio show is primarily for entertainment and "humor," not objective journalism/commentary.

7.) Of course, he had absolutely no new information to bring to the table during the interview w/ Mike and Adam. All we learned from the interview is that UB, the company paying Joe, meets Joe's standards for ethics. Shocking.

If a player making a deal with a poker site is of no concern to anyone else, what exactly is your theory of why poker sites sign players at all..?

I think your being a bit too hard on him. Joe has admitted that the money and being sponsored was an important factor, its not like he is hiding that fact. Joe is not dumb, far from it. He knows that the community would react negatively and had he wanted to he could say, *there is no more cheating, I did it for the money goign forward and thats that* That would have been easier. He'd take some heat, but lets face it that would blow over. Its not like Duke and Hellmuth are shut out of anyting they want to do over this.

Instead, he sought out and insisted on the media relation job .Thats fairly sick and and those who know him well, and even those who disagree with his decision, do not doubt his sincerity in wanting to bring the scandal to a fair conclusion and have everyone involved exposed. Is that motivated by a selfless desire to save the world? Hell no. Its motivated by the money, and Joe has said as much. Its much more than most would do, ill tell you that. He wants the sponsorship, and he wants to be a part of a valid, reputable company, so this is a way to achieve that. Of course, if he cannot turn UB into a reputable company and/or he realizes they have sold him a false bill of goods, then he will have made a horrible mistake and will have to resign or face the consequences of not being respected. He is taking that chance , and all im saying is that right or wrong, I can gaurantee you he means well.

Again, I understand why people would be suspicious, but if you spend some time watching Joe, learning about who he is, then you realize hes a good person. He means well, I can gaurantee you that. He did want the money/sponsorhip, but the guy means well. Give him a chance.

I also think your statements that he has no presence in the poker world and is a tourney donk, etc, is obviously borne out of a hatred for UB. The guy has significant tournement winnings and is the president/ceo of pokerroad. If you want to hate UB go ahead, I dont think thats an unreasonable stance, but I do think transferring all that hate to Joe is unwarrented. At bottom all im saying is this: you can hate UB and anyone who backs UB if you want and I can see where your anger comes from, but give Seebok a chance to prove he is geniunely looking to improve things there and dont hate him personally, because hes one of the good guys in this game.

Your logic is astounding.

What does releasing the names accomplish? We know the biggest name (Hamilton) and what happened to him? Nothing. He still plays poker and golf with not as much as a slap on the wris or a day in jail or a finet. Now if someone wants to sign with UB that is their deal. Two big names still endorse the site and get paid for it. It's life and it's earning money. If your powerless to stop a site from cheating people out of money and then let them continue to operate well you can't get mad at someone for working for or endorsing them. You should out your energy into getting some real regulation for these sites then this wouldn't happen.