I sympathize with most of the 2+2 crowd on this topic. I did my part and closed my UB account when the scandal broke. But despite the best efforts of Mike, Adam, Court, Pokerroad (at the time), and many other prominent people in the poker industry, the news of the scandal did not reach the poker masses.

We also had the 60 minutes piece on national US TV, and many well written articles detailing the whole scandal on this site, and other poker media sites.

They didn't hear, didn't listen, or didn't care.

The market has clearly spoken. UB/AP is back, and the BBJ tables are rocking.

I do not like or agree with Joe's decision to sign with UB, but I have to show him some respect for doing what he believes to be the best option for him right now, and having the drive to broaden his poker related career.

kinda interesting that poker road's twitter feed has been turned off for the last 8 hours.

LOL Clinton is not associated with integrity by anyone AFAIK. I doubt he'd lend much credibility to any group, quite the opposite.

Hi Barry:

Two Plus Two has no relationship with either of these sites and will not consider ever dealing with them until all these issues are cleared up to the satisfaction of our community.

Actually, it's also my opinion that PokerRoad is not doing well financially and that probably influenced Joe's decision. However, I do agree that we should "sit back" and see what happens and give him a chance to do something "beneficial for the poker community."

Best wishes,
Mason

Is this the real reason why Ali Nejad left PRR?

I'm a big fan of PRR and was really disappointed when I heard this news.

you all still boycott cotton shirts b/c of slavery?

don't be ridiculous. there's no way i'd go near these people, not for any money. i'd rather not have a pot to p**s in than be annie duke's puppet.

This really isn't a complicated issue and I can't believe how absurd some of these posts are, like the one two above me by john voight.

Separating the individuals from the "brand" is kind of ridiculous. Did Enron cheat, or was it only the individuals associated with Enron? Can anyone really provide any kind of evidence to support an argument that the current "management" and "ownership" has come completely clean on this? Of course not. In fact, we can't even verify their statements that it's new "ownership" in the sense that the money is now going to a completely different set of people then were in control during the years of cheating that took place.

UB and it's current/former or whatever ownership has done nothing more then is absolutely the bare essential necessary to maintain the valuable brand that they developed. At the very least, they have covered up the full extent of the cheating in order to maintain the UB brand. And, because they have done that, there's really NOTHING that can be done to change that at this point. Anyone who tells you differently, including my friend Joe, has either been duped by the UB hard sell or is being disingenuous (at best).

What they did was allow an investigation by a gaming commision with strong financial ties to the past and future success of UB, and have claimed that they turned over the info to the proper "authorities," which I'm guessing is something along the lines of:



This doesn't even begin to address the Ante up for Africa shadiness exposed by Admo. Why anyone would want to be associated with Annie Duke, Phil Hellmuth, etc. is beyond my comprehension.

How many Poker Players Total in the World? How many of those play On-Line?

How many take the time of day to post in either 2+2 Forums, Poker Road Forums, Or Pocket 5's etc.?

How many people are truly upset at UB for what they did? I am sure a few thousand led by Todd Witteless who has a valid gripe.

UB payed back millions to players who were cheated. This does not make it right but if they were convicted in a court of Law, restitution would be part of the verdict.

They could have just said, "We are on top of this issue and we will get back to you as soon as we find out who the culprits are" and not payed out a cent!

It appears they are TRYING to right a wrong and are signing credible individuals. In the meantime only us Hounds in the forums and those who play On-Line everyday really think about the UB issue as does Russ Hamilton who now has to be awaiting his fate with the IRS.

Hundreds of others who play in B&M casinos really do not care and thousands of others have more important issues going on.

So in the long run the USA is a free country and we have the right to choose what we want and who we want in our lives and UB seems to have a large number of USA players on their site who do not seem to upset about the past.

We also have the right to voice our opinion's freely as everyone is doing here.

I being in Law Enforcement really wanted to see more but I think we have received all were going to get.

GL Joe Sebok kick some A$$

And yes, this little rant of mine was inspired by Annie Duke's tilt-inducing tweet to Sebok about the "haters." Yeah, there is no reason to be suspicious of UB unless you are a hater. This is who you have chosen to go into business with, Joe. Ugh.

Please explain I missed this post!

I thought I remembered ads on 2+2 after one of the scandals, but you took them down after there was pressure. I will disagree with any Ub advertising until we get truthful answers from Joe. Even though I didn't agree with him, I guess it's better to hear from someone I know I can trust.

Barry

Barry,
I believe you saw the adverts of affiliates and rake-back sites. Not UB or AP directly. Those sites were informed by 2+2 Management of their desire to remove them from their adverts and consider removing them from their programs. Since they are independent companies they were given some time to make the changes in the ads and it is their decision whether or not to support them with their rake-back deals.

Most of these NVGtards work for a living, trying grinding 7-5 in steel plant or slaughterhouse then tell me how much of a grind tournament poker is. Poker might not be easy at times, but it's nothing compared to getting laid off in a recession and losing your house. In poker your rep means a lot, and needless to say Joe's rep has been seriously damaged. Joe isn't on the unemployment line, I'm sure Barry will not let him go homeless, I guess maintaining the poker lifestyle takes some good cash flow, so I find it hard to believe this is some kinda last resort for Seebs. As for not knowing "what your decision would be in that scenario when you're getting paid an exorbitant sum of money to wear a ****ing patch? " A Swastika goes on a patch too, doesn't mean you wear it because you are getting offered some good dough, point is any patch you rep is a reflection on you.

yes because that is clearly an applicable analogy

YES!

First post to draw a link between this and the Nazi's

Bravo, well played

Edit: Meh, after further thought this is unnecessary.

props to MJ and adam, paul smith, and mookman. i respect the hell out of all of you.

+1..well said...especially the last sentence...

No. We have never allowed ads as you describe. However, what we do allow are banners supplied by affiliate companies who purchase advertising with us, and sometimes the banner they supply will include either AP or UB (or both). And when we see this we have them remove the reference.

By the way, Two Plus Two is not run based on pressure we receive from others (which happens all the time), and I care very little concerning any pressure we receive. Our business model is based on delivering a top notch product and running an honest company. It has probably cost us significant revenue in the short run, but in the long run, we believe we are well ahead.

MM

AP/UB wasn't sold, they were "sold". Big difference. The orignal AP cheaters are still involved. That Thom guy that was supposedly an owner still wears AP gear in the tournaments he plays. Now why would he do that if some Indian guy that problably doesn't even have a computer supposedly owns UB/AP?

Until people stop pretending the company was really sold, not much is going to get accomplishment.

Did they ever renumerate a charity for the popcorn money they absconded?

I understand it is awfully convenient for barry and joe to think the company was sold but I dont know too many people that really believe this.

Too bad Joe couldn't get a deal with doyles room... Probably not as lucrative or available based on Doyles player volume, but at least Joe would be with people of integrity in the poker world as opposed to ultimate cheat.

Good luck Joe, get the cash up front and don't do anything till the check clears because they've stiffed other UB pros. Then take the money and rub it on your titties....

And for people that think UB payed back all the money, They only paid back what they were caught stealing. If they don't release *ALL* the user names or *All* the tainted histories then you can't be sure if the liars are telling the truth. Trust but Verify...

On the anti-Ub scale, I'm probably a 7 out of 10, but this kind of gratuitous racial slur is not helpful.

haha, wp

joe sebok's remix of c.r.e.a.m. just missed the cut on Only Built 4 Cuban Linx Pt II