Just in case this isn't clear, Excapsa owned UB at the time of the superuser scandal unless I'm mistaken.

This is why I LOVE 2+2..keep digging any ties whatsoever to UB is unacceptable

isn't it wonderful?

This site lost credibility when the best adjective it could muster was "Ultimate" for it's name. Seriously? While all the digging is great and I love it, it is unnecessary b/c it's obvious it's corrupt just by the name alone!

*Please note that while this post may seem a bit trolly, and it is, it does serve a purpose and well... just think about it.

It never ceases to amaze me the "sluth" abilities of 2p2r's and many others. I so grateful for you all.

I've been a poker player for many years. I started playing online almost in the beginning (well I came on board around paradise poker times). I had an account on pp, ub, then ftp, pstars, ap, etc. I was a small stakes player and the ub scam didn't effect me personally - but I definitely followed all the news (and immediately dropped my ub and ap accounts.

Years later I played very little on ftp and mainly on pstars. I had very little money on ftp on bf and (of course) have not seen any of that. The money I had on pstars I got back soon after (as we all did). I am grateful for that.

I've played (a very little) on Merge and Winning since then but have never put much money on them as I've never been very assured that it was safe.

I live in CA and have been following the news (as most of us have) over the years about regulated online play in USA. I was very excited about UP being opened up recently as it looked like great news for what should come soon to the rest of us in USA.

Then I read this thread. I have to say - I'm just a casual online player - who just wants to log in - play some poker - maybe sometimes withdraw a little... mostly deposit... ;(
And not worry about all of these scandals.

Unfortunately that is not the real world.

Again - I am so very grateful for 2p2 - and sites like Dan Druff's. As you guys are amazing at sniffing out and investigating all of these messes.

This thread sickens me. Not the posters - just the content (the truth about what is going on). Thank you so much for your posts everyone.

Thank you 2p2.

At least by being a member here for so long - I can log on at any time and get the real truth about what is going on.

Even if it's not what I want to hear.

-C

that was my opinion too until I realised who owned it. Pretty obvious the brothers are trying to leverage their biggest brand "Ultimate' fighting on to this. I guess they figure the marriage will bring in more customers than it scares off.

I haven't discovered any ownership or direct financial ties between Ultimate Poker and Ultimate Bet. The only tie-in I have found is the use of Iovation software services by Ultimate Poker via their relationship with CAMS, LLC as a licensed software provider. IMO, this is a failing of the NV Gaming Control Board licensing process (i.e., giving a license to a service provider company without discovering the connection of one their third-party vendors to the UB scandal). I am just trying to bring this matter to the attention of the NGCB, not point any fingers at Ultimate Poker. Hopefully this will lead to a new background investigation of Iovation by the NGCB.

Unfortunately I think the fact that nobody was ever charged with a crime in any of these matters, makes it tough for NVGCB to consider this as a factor in licensing.

They were notified that one of the operators that received a license, was found to have a rigged casino game. They didn't seem interested in this and still awarded the license.

List here http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/48...system-997816/ Obviously out of date, I know of some more gaming companies using it and chances are some of that list are no longer around/using Iovation.

in before FullPoker and PokerAsteriks.com

I think a big problem will always be that Iovation have never admitted to nor been found guilty of the things they are accused of with the UB scandal, although the evidence is damning.

I think the best angle to keep Iovation from working with licensed Nevada online poker rooms would be to try and use the 'bad actor' clause which prevents companies that were involved in offshore gaming from participating for at least 5 or 10 years. If you prove that Iovation were closely connnected to UB(a sure-fire bad actor company), from an ownership or operations standpoint, maybe NGC can slap a bad actor lockout on them.

http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-and-re...lockout-14-02/

Posted today: http://www.legalpokersites.com/blog/...-players/4017/

Apologies, I only had looked in that particular thread.

Obviously, I subsequently found plenty of discussion in the NVG thread (including yours). Just glad to see there are still many people who continue to give a crookeye to Pierson and Karl about this. It's amazing to me how many would like to break both of Russ Hamilton's knees with a 2x4 yet they don't seem to care about Pierson, Karl, et al.

Put another way, if Russ Hamilton had started some business -- even one that appears to be perfectly legit -- and UP decided to hire that business for any reason, the same people who posted things like "why bring this up on such a happy day" would have gathered up the torches and released the hounds.

Hell, I'd be pissed if UP hired Russ Hamilton as a janitor.

Yes you and the four other people who played on ub.

Also where is it that iovation was used to steal money. The inaccurate paranoia is a bit much. As is thinking any real percentage of people knew about ub or what happened and it mattering to up.

As a licensed vendor it is very likely they underwent significant background checks. Finally the iovation software has no access to any money and had nothing to do with the ub scandal.

Clearly up was moving fast and they needed an experienced, capable and licensed vendor.

So each of those 4 had like $13M on deposit on BF???

Indeed and you are not helping.


They are not licensed. They likely could not be licensed. Part of the point is that they came in through a backdoor where they felt they did not need to be licensed yet they are affecting decisions of who can/cannot play on a legal site.

The iovation software had a lot to do with the UB scandal, but I've actually looked into it a little bit. You should too.

This. Well done!

I think both Iovations and UP are going to get tarred by the same brush. Not saying they shouldn't, you understand.

The first sentence doesn't negate the second.

Pretty disgusting that a guy like Helmuth is getting paid by Iovation

A word of wisdom, if I may.

It is, and probably always will be, unlikely that the regulators will do the right things. They are as corrupted by money as any Pokersite ever was.

It is up to us to investigate, expose and withhold business from bad actors. More importantly, it is up to us to spread the word as widely as possible such that everyone can decide their own actions based on available information. Crooks get away with it because WE let them.

If you don't like that UP is involved with Iovation, Greg Pierson, or anyone else involved with UB, let them know with an email and by withholding your business. This mess will only get better if we all INSIST that any new Pokersite be beyond reproach by us, the players.

I actually think that Iovation working with a Nevada company is a rare chance--maybe a small one--to get the US government involved in the UB investigation.

Involved? maybe. Will they do anything with what they would find? Not a chance in hell.

here is a link to almost a 100 files screen shots, audio files, emails, gode mode programs, ect

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6kcqb68zeagbf1x/c2CDvtK5f2

travis

Dax/UB

You don't have my business because of this.
I live on Cheyenne and Buffalo.

Alp

I just added more files sorry if there are any duplicates but there are thousands of files to go through

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6kcqb68zeagbf1x/c2CDvtK5f2

Travis

Thanks. If the NGCB initiates an investigation of Iovation, this might be useful background info (along with explanations, etc.). Let's see first if they take any action.