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Old 07-21-2013, 04:05 PM   #76
Marlo_Stanfield
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

The best affiliate I have ever worked with.

Disclosure: been playing professionally since 2003
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:55 PM   #77
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
Mason - Thank you for your input.

The copied articles have not been removed. I mentioned four of them but there were many more. Some involve my work. I reached out to Pokerupdate twice privately about this before publishing my article but I was ignored. Pokerfuse published a story in May about the same author copy/pasting articles and publishing them on PokerUpdate. Pokerupdate did delete the article mentioned by pokerfuse.

Note that Pokerupdate did take some action after my article. They deleted the author from their site. Now these articles are published anonymously.

In my opinion, this shows that Pokerupdate was well aware of the plagiarism before my article. They certainly have no excuse for not deleting the articles at this point.

One other issue that I want to address is that I am not on a campaign against this company like they claim. I have published 500 or so articles this year. I would estimate I mention their company in three of them. Even if it is twice that many that is still 1% of everything I have written this year.
Almost every time Jamie is outed for his shady behaviour he plays the victim and uses this type of defense, blaming everyone for trying to sabotage him and tarnish his name etc. Just read any of the older threads on 2+2 he avoids answering specific questions and brings up the motivation of the accuser every single time. The world is out to get him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipbidder View Post
I'm not a moderator, obviously, and there's zero chance I'll be one in the future. (From either the site or my perspective.)

However, if I were a mod, then this is what would be happening now:

PokerVIP has asserted that the general nature of the C&D is being misrepresented. They've gotten permission from Pokeraddict to publish the full text.

They should publish the full text and explain the assertion of misrepresentation.

Barring that, they should be banned.
+1
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:40 PM   #78
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

As far as a VPN, if an affiliate is giving the player false assurance that the VPN is safe and there's no risk, then they are putting the player at risk.

If the affiliate is informing the player that a VPN is a risk if they choose to take it, then I don't believe the affiliate doing anything wrong.

I also believe that affiliates that promote sites like Lock Poker and Juicy Stakes are putting players at a real risk today, similar to giving false assurances that a VPN is completely safe, but that's a story for another thread.

The major risk I see with VPNs, is when affiliates set USA players up on non USA sites and cash them out. They are effectively turning themselves into payment processors, and that might open them up to a lot of legal issues. That is an affiliate risk, however, not a player risk. So if an affiliate decides to take that risk, and they aren't giving false assurance to players, then the only harm I see is that they are taking a potentially dangerous risk themselves.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:56 PM   #79
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
As far as a VPN, if an affiliate is giving the player false assurance that the VPN is safe and there's no risk, then they are putting the player at risk.

If the affiliate is informing the player that a VPN is a risk if they choose to take it, then I don't believe the affiliate doing anything wrong.

I also believe that affiliates that promote sites like Lock Poker and Juicy Stakes are putting players at a real risk today, similar to giving false assurances that a VPN is completely safe, but that's a story for another thread.

The major risk I see with VPNs, is when affiliates set USA players up on non USA sites and cash them out. They are effectively turning themselves into payment processors, and that might open them up to a lot of legal issues. That is an affiliate risk, however, not a player risk. So if an affiliate decides to take that risk, and they aren't giving false assurance to players, then the only harm I see is that they are taking a potentially dangerous risk themselves.
You don't see any problems with an affiliate causing huge liability issues for the operators / poker rooms they are promoting?
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:30 PM   #80
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

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Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post

The copied articles have not been removed.
Between the time that I made this quoted post and now Pokerupdate deleted one of the posts and edited the other three to remove the offending content.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:50 PM   #81
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

English teachers had it right imo
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:55 AM   #82
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

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You don't see any problems with an affiliate causing huge liability issues for the operators / poker rooms they are promoting?
I don't think I implied that in my post, I was really just talking about the affiliate player relationship and responsibility.

Poker rooms not caring and even actively encouraging players from banned countries to play would be my larger concern if I operated a network. Some networks take that approach, and it's one I would replicate.

An example might be PokerStars. From what I can tell, they take some pretty active steps to discourage VPNs. They take a look at where players deposit from, cashout to, they keep up to date on IDs and they take player reports seriously, even going so far as to bust a pretty popularized case of a player playing in a USA live MTT, then playing PS just hours later.

If someone were to sneak by PokerStars defenses, I'm not sure I would call that a huge liability since PS can prove that they are policing this as best as they can. I would also never recommend a player buy a VPN and play on PS. I would tell them it is likely a large risk and they would likely be banned, possibly losing all their money if they were caught.

It's the things like an account name of "bbbbblll jlalalal" or depositing via transfer, cashing out via transfer, playing from known VPN IPs, watching for IP drops, not having any KYP (know your player) checks performed at all... that's the type of stuff that would be a real liability if the network failed to police it. When that stuff is happening, you know there will be hordes of affiliates and players setting up VPNs and going to town. I wouldn't exactly call that an affiliate (or player) problem, I'd call it a network security issue.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:58 AM   #83
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
I don't think I implied that in my post, I was really just talking about the affiliate player relationship and responsibility.

Poker rooms not caring and even actively encouraging players from banned countries to play would be my larger concern if I operated a network. Some networks take that approach, and it's one I would replicate.

An example might be PokerStars. From what I can tell, they take some pretty active steps to discourage VPNs. They take a look at where players deposit from, cashout to, they keep up to date on IDs and they take player reports seriously, even going so far as to bust a pretty popularized case of a player playing in a USA live MTT, then playing PS just hours later.

If someone were to sneak by PokerStars defenses, I'm not sure I would call that a huge liability since PS can prove that they are policing this as best as they can. I would also never recommend a player buy a VPN and play on PS. I would tell them it is likely a large risk and they would likely be banned, possibly losing all their money if they were caught.

It's the things like an account name of "bbbbblll jlalalal" or depositing via transfer, cashing out via transfer, playing from known VPN IPs, watching for IP drops, not having any KYP (know your player) checks performed at all... that's the type of stuff that would be a real liability if the network failed to police it. When that stuff is happening, you know there will be hordes of affiliates and players setting up VPNs and going to town. I wouldn't exactly call that an affiliate (or player) problem, I'd call it a network security issue.
Obviously a network and its rooms should police the stuff you mention, including sufficient KYC checks. However, you seemed to imply that it is ok for an affiliate to accept a player signup even though they suspect that the player will be using a VPN to play (from a banned jurisdiction). IMO the affiliate should actively say no to that player as to protect both themselves, and especially the poker room they are working with.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:17 AM   #84
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

I have decided to send a letter to the lawyer:

Quote:
Dear Ms. Bryner,

I received a Cease and Desist Order (C&D) from your office on July 19, 2013. The letter was dated July 16, 2013. This C&D alleged that I defamed your client described as 180Vita, which does business as PokerVIP, PokerUpdate, as well as other brands.

As I am sure you are aware, the truth is the ultimate defense in an alleged defamation case.

Your C&D letter contained false statements and misquotes. I publicly responded to your client’s allegations at Twoplustwo.com. Your client admitted that the article published one day before the date of your C&D was truthful by stating “on occasion one specific writer on PokerUpdate cut up content from other news sites.”

I advise you to investigate your client’s accusations before moving forward with the lawsuit that you threatened in your letter to me. Should your client decide to move forward with the threats presented in said letter, I am well prepared to defend myself against your allegations. The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects my right to publish the truth about your client. I refuse to be a victim of a Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation (SLAPP).

Regards,

John Mehaffey
http://www.4flush.com/opinion/respon...attorney/14497
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:41 AM   #85
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

Are you going to post the full cease & desist?
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #86
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

Not that you need one, but you should have retained your own counsel PA.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:59 AM   #87
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

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Originally Posted by Daddy Warbucks View Post
Are you going to post the full cease & desist?
My legal advice states that I should not publish the C&D because in 2008 a lawyer was able to claim copyright to one:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/Dozier...rweb650951.htm

It is up to the other party to present it.
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #88
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

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Originally Posted by sba9630 View Post
Do you have permission from Comcast (Poker After Dark), ESPN (WSOP) and GSN (High Stakes Poker)?
I might be wrong, I thought pokertube is just hotlinking most of its content from youtube? If that so then hotlinking is perfectly fine. And the question shifts to folks uploading fragments copyrighted content to youtube.

Btw, I think youtube has takes a very balanced position on people uploading framgents of their favorite yet copyrighted content.
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:37 PM   #89
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

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Originally Posted by AdamSchwartz View Post
Now that I think about it, talking about PokerVIP's shady practices would probably make a good segment for the Pokercast.
This needs to happen.

Seems like Jamie's constant lies and threats are finally coming back to haunt him. About time.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:50 PM   #90
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
Obviously the entire industry is awaiting his proof he has yet to provide although he has been asked countless times. Not one person that I know to be an affiliate has come to say "Yes this is legal, why isn't everyone doing it?" Instead countless ones are saying it isn't legal. So the entire industry is wrong and you are right?
I was just reading the linked thread on PAL and then came back to read this thread and saw your post.

I really don't know what's going on or exactly who's who but since I just read the other thread this was fresh in my mind.

In that other thread I guess you made some reference to him violating the T&Cs. You called it "illegal". Even if he is doing what you say, I do not believe it is "illegal" unless it violates the laws of appropriate jurisdictions. A contract signed between two private parties is not "law".

I'm not taking any sides, just pointing this out.
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:14 PM   #91
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipbidder View Post
I'm not a moderator, obviously, and there's zero chance I'll be one in the future. (From either the site or my perspective.)

However, if I were a mod, then this is what would be happening now:

PokerVIP has asserted that the general nature of the C&D is being misrepresented. They've gotten permission from Pokeraddict to publish the full text.

They should publish the full text and explain the assertion of misrepresentation.

Barring that, they should be banned.
+1
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Old 07-22-2013, 06:33 PM   #92
Mason Malmuth
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Re: I Received C&D Letter from Attorney of PokerVIP and Poker Update

Hi Everyone:

I believe progress is being made privately concerning these issues and we expect this to be resolved privately, thus this thread will be locked.

Best wishes,
Mason
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