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How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables?

07-03-2016 , 10:44 AM
As SS pointed out there is no wifi involved. RFID is a very low power radio frequency signal generated by a chip in each card which is received by antennas embedded in the table with the data transmitted over wire to the graphics computer.

The incription is in simple terms like this. The signal is a serial number, not "ace of spades". The receiving computer has a lookup table for the serial numbers. Every deck has a different set of serial numbers and a different lookup table. Since no two decks have the same set of numbers or encryption, it is impossible to read the value of the cards without the key for that deck.

As an aside I played on an episode of Poker Central and had no concerns about possible cheating. I also witnessed how close the cards had to be to the receiving antennas for the readers to work. If they were off the mark by just a little they were not able to be read.

If someone were able to invent some sort of portable super powerful antenna and reader and sit in the rail, all they would receive is a Mashup of serial numbers. They wouldn't be able to tell who they belong to or what the card values were. They would be receiving serial numbers for every card in the deck. It would be totally useless.

Last edited by Videopro; 07-03-2016 at 06:34 PM. Reason: *drops mic*
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-03-2016 , 06:40 PM
Couple guys Russ and Ray go in a room and get to see the cards and gaming can't go in. Seems legit...Maybe it'll catch on in Baccarat.
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-03-2016 , 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professionalpoker
As SS pointed out there is no wifi involved. RFID is a very low power radio frequency signal generated by a chip in each card which is received by antennas embedded in the table with the data transmitted over wire to the graphics computer.

The incription is in simple terms like this. The signal is a serial number, not "ace of spades". The receiving computer has a lookup table for the serial numbers. Every deck has a different set of serial numbers and a different lookup table. Since no two decks have the same set of numbers or encryption, it is impossible to read the value of the cards without the key for that deck.

As an aside I played on an episode of Poker Central and had no concerns about possible cheating. I also witnessed how close the cards had to be to the receiving antennas for the readers to work. If they were off the mark by just a little they were not able to be read.

If someone were able to invent some sort of portable super powerful antenna and reader and sit in the rail, all they would receive is a Mashup of serial numbers. They wouldn't be able to tell who they belong to or what the card values were. They would be receiving serial numbers for every card in the deck. It would be totally useless.
Without encryption plus a random invariant as part of the RFID communication protocol, the process of correlating a particular card's serial number to its actual value (ex, "Ace of Spades") is a trivial matter of the cheater getting dealt enough hands (who is presumably playing at the table) to quickly build up the table of serial numbers to cards.
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-03-2016 , 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professionalpoker
If someone were able to invent some sort of portable super powerful antenna and reader and sit in the rail, all they would receive is a Mashup of serial numbers. They wouldn't be able to tell who they belong to or what the card values were. They would be receiving serial numbers for every card in the deck. It would be totally useless.
After a couple of orbits, they should have enough info to be dangerous.
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-04-2016 , 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professionalpoker
As SS pointed out there is no wifi involved. RFID is a very low power radio frequency signal generated by a chip in each card which is received by antennas embedded in the table with the data transmitted over wire to the graphics computer.

The incription is in simple terms like this. The signal is a serial number, not "ace of spades". The receiving computer has a lookup table for the serial numbers. Every deck has a different set of serial numbers and a different lookup table. Since no two decks have the same set of numbers or encryption, it is impossible to read the value of the cards without the key for that deck.

As an aside I played on an episode of Poker Central and had no concerns about possible cheating. I also witnessed how close the cards had to be to the receiving antennas for the readers to work. If they were off the mark by just a little they were not able to be read.

If someone were able to invent some sort of portable super powerful antenna and reader and sit in the rail, all they would receive is a Mashup of serial numbers. They wouldn't be able to tell who they belong to or what the card values were. They would be receiving serial numbers for every card in the deck. It would be totally useless.
i might be wrong, but it seems this is one of those threads we have every year ... besides that what pp said and with acknowledging, that there are some potential but very unlikely leaks, i guess we will settle (again), that other cheating methods - those, who work on regular tables too - are far easier
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-04-2016 , 10:05 AM
I have commented over 30 final tables with hole cards revealed, from the peek room. I don't think I could agree to cheat for all the money in the world. The repercussions for being caught and my moral comfort are worth more than money.
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-04-2016 , 10:14 AM
This is more of a concern in the GPL as they have god mode enabled and commentators have access to data in real time.

Alex can control the outcome of any match


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-04-2016 , 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by my_nameaintearl
This is more of a concern in the GPL as they have god mode enabled and commentators have access to data in real time.

Alex can control the outcome of any match
Is it really more of a concern? They're playing for close to zero dollars. Do you worry about superusers in your play money games?
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-04-2016 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SrslySirius
Is it really more of a concern? They're playing for close to zero dollars. Do you worry about superusers in your play money games?


There is a prize pool that rivals many final tables.

So yes much more of a concern than decrypting RFID signals in seconds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-04-2016 , 04:35 PM
Dumb thread. As we all know, poker is filled with people of the highest ethical and moral standards who would be at the highest point of their chosen profession had they decided to spend their life's ambition in another way. Poker attracts the best of the best, the brightest stars in our gene pool, with an unwavering and impeccable desire to make the world we all live in a better place.

The fact that you would even question this common knowledge and would somehow insinuate that a poker player(s) would cheat, is simply outrageous.
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
07-04-2016 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Screen
This is how RFID regulations and compliance is SUPPOSED to work in Nevada.

1. The signal must be encrypted at the initial point of the antennas reading the cards.
2. That encrypted signal is then sent to a "Peek Room" that is located away from the area of play.
3. All personnel in the peek room must surrender any communication devices that could be used to send a signal to any place outside of the peek room.
4. No one is allowed to enter the peek room once gaming has started.
5. There is SUPPOSED to be a Nevada Gaming Control Board Agent INSIDE the peak room along with a Security Officer of the establishment where the game is being played. Some places even have a Security Office outside of the Peek Room as well.
6. Door to peek room must be locked.
I'm assuming they have security cameras in the peek room monitoring the personnel..
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
04-02-2017 , 03:51 AM
Quick Googling seems to indicate that power can be increased and a directional antenna / receiver that can "aim" (how accurately and at what range?) appears possible.

What if you had a high power reader installed underneath clothing, one over each knee for example, to read adjacent player hole cards?
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
04-02-2017 , 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtletom
Come on GUYS!?!?!?!? You don't think Phil Ivy hasn't figured this out yet? He already cheated a CASINO!!!!!!
More than one casino. However you are wrong to say that he cheated. He hustled and they fell for it. End of story.
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
04-03-2017 , 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Screen
This is how RFID regulations and compliance is SUPPOSED to work in Nevada.

1. The signal must be encrypted at the initial point of the antennas reading the cards.
2. That encrypted signal is then sent to a "Peek Room" that is located away from the area of play.
3. All personnel in the peek room must surrender any communication devices that could be used to send a signal to any place outside of the peek room.
4. No one is allowed to enter the peek room once gaming has started.
5. There is SUPPOSED to be a Nevada Gaming Control Board Agent INSIDE the peak room along with a Security Officer of the establishment where the game is being played. Some places even have a Security Office outside of the Peek Room as well.
6. Door to peek room must be locked.
I can verify the above list, great posts from Big Screen and Professional Poker. Additionally:

7. NV Gaming (NVGCB) may at its descretion request a video feed inside the peek room in leu of an on-staff agent (secured closed circuit video feeds are more cost and resource efficient than having a live agent available 24-7)

8. Live commentators are not actually provided a live feed, their feed is delayed just as the feed is delayed for the home viewers. In the event an automated RFID solution is used without a peek room then nobody can have access to the live feed - the delay is mandatory. This also means that any technological or mechanical errors cannot be corrected until they are verified on the delay which is a logistical nightmare for the production crew.
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote
10-16-2019 , 02:30 AM
bump, because this guy saw it coming...
How to safeguard RFID cheating at live tables? Quote

      
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