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Old 05-12-2017, 05:08 PM   #151
lioncub
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Originally Posted by Kenny S View Post
I would but this headline could mean a min cash over there. "Charlie Carrel Accidentally Registers for $1k PLO8 SCOOP Event & Wins"
ooohhh, I felt that burn...
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:57 PM   #152
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Perhaps you'll prefer the delightfully uplifting piece I wrote this afternoon on Charlie Carrel misclicking into a $1k PLO8 SCOOP event and going on to win it?
I thought this was a joke when I first read it lol
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:08 PM   #153
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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At the end of the day though, it was just one small article I did to showcase our functionality and it was a bit clickbaity. I must've written several thousand HSDB articles over the years so if I get flamed by a few people for one of them I can live with that.
It seems pretty low to create click bait which appears libelous in the headline, and then qualify it in the first paragraph.

It probably will temporarily boost the traffic to your site, but give you a bad reputation. The problem with libelous and close to libelous material like this is getting worse and worse.
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #154
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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The number of buy ins lost is insignificant. The amount of $ lost is not. Playing for that kind of money in 2017 factoring the state of the games is straight up degen. Also I had to laugh at guys saying Dani is staked- I have no idea- but I think it's absurd to think anyone would stake Dani to play a person like BERRI.

Regardless, the article shouldn't have been posted. Such a waste of time and is not news worthy.
The number of buy ins is definitely significant. It gives us a reasonable idea of whether or not he is a losing player vs this particular opponent.

In your opinion, the article is a waste of time. But you don't speak for everyone. I personally enjoyed reading the article very much.
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Old 05-12-2017, 07:23 PM   #155
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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lol what? It being a significant amount of money does not automatically make it news worthy. This is worse than tabloids. I can't believe you're being paid to write this garbage. If they had been playing multiple tables, for long, frequent sessions then ok I could behind it. But all you have is someone lost 1.5m, boohoo not news.
Well tabloids are centred around rumour and speculation, while this article is written about statistics. The majority of people who frequent HSDB are there for player's results not news articles.

Agreed that the title is horrible but not sure what your so upset about. Half the articles on the site are whose up, who they won from, what games, etc.

They have played a number of sessions fairly consistently for last several months.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:42 PM   #156
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Well tabloids are centred around rumour and speculation, while this article is written about statistics. The majority of people who frequent HSDB are there for player's results not news articles.

Agreed that the title is horrible but not sure what your so upset about. Half the articles on the site are whose up, who they won from, what games, etc.

They have played a number of sessions fairly consistently for last several months.
I'm the OP and I don't know Dani Stern but it was a combination of events that bothered me. First the thread on here, followed by the headline on Highstakes DB saying he's losing more than Gus Hansen, then combine that with Stern being the guy who took on the most powerful people in the industry.....Pokerstars and it just had that media stank to it. The guy tried to do something for the players. This should make him a sympathetic figure in the media as well as among the players, even spent his own money for the good of the players (and himself). Now all of a sudden there's an underlying attempt to make his name synonymous with the biggest loser in poker? Most poker players are backed and that can't be a good thing for him while at the same time media outlets accept advertising. By the way I'm not upset about anything, upset is a strong word. Like I said I don't know Dani Stern and if he ended up broke and living on the street it wouldn't effect my day one way or the other but making him the new "pokers biggest loser" is ludicrous. He represented himself well in the war of words with Pokerstars and their representatives.

Last edited by Kenny S; 05-12-2017 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:38 AM   #157
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

Were these loses on PokerStars?
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:09 AM   #158
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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then combine that with Stern being the guy who took on the most powerful people in the industry
He did not take on Pokerstars

He took on Berri on Pokerstars and that's how this this got created
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:12 PM   #159
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Didn't he acknowledge that in the first paragraph of the article?
They won't see the first paragraph until they open the article, it's misleading/tricking someone into clicking the article that's the main problem. Also you shouldn't use a misleading title at all, regardless of what the first paragraph says. And his premise in the first paragraph is silly, $/hand lost over a small sample of huplo doesn't justify that title.
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Old 05-13-2017, 04:37 PM   #160
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

So highstakes db, which needs high stakes poker to run in order to stay afloat, offhandedly bashes one of the few players willing to battle at high stakes vs other regs. Seems like bad business to me whichever way you spin it. Live and let live
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:04 PM   #161
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

Meh as with Gus, if Dani has 7 figures to lose playing poker he's probably doing something right somewhere in life.
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Old 05-13-2017, 05:55 PM   #162
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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if Dani has 7 figures to lose playing poker he's probably doing something right somewhere in life.
not true
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:28 PM   #163
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Yeah I know, writing on a website about something I quite enjoy from the comfort of my own living room and getting paid for it is the kind of thing nightmares are made of isn't it? Suicide is the obvious next step.
I appreciate what you do. Ignore all the haters. Thanks
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:55 PM   #164
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

Maybe Stars doom switched Ansky so he would lose all that money and then hired journalists to defame him.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:23 PM   #165
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

Props to him for battling with strong opponents, not like some youtube "best in the world at one time" stars.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:47 PM   #166
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

Tbh, this has caused me to notice the articles on the HSB site. The article would have been OK without the headline, and if it made more clear that Ansky/Supernova9 was playing absolutely top PLO players HU. Presumably both he and his opponents have a high winrate in high stakes ring games. This is different from Hanson, who was losing at the highest stakes online, but had made a lot from live MTTs, backgammon, and Full Tilt.

I don't want to make the author of the article feel bad, but I don't agree with articles that are borderline defamatory. I am prejudiced though, as I know Dani and due to my own experiences.

Last edited by betgo; 05-13-2017 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:01 PM   #167
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Thumbs down Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Props to him for battling with strong opponents, not like some youtube "best in the world at one time" stars.
god forbid some people don't want to play poker forever. you can reply when you make millions.
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Old 05-14-2017, 12:16 AM   #168
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

Why does 2p2 and specifically NVG love Dani? Anyone else who has his graph would get trashed. There are people on here who think Isildurrrr was just a fish on a heater, but at least there are upswings in his graph. Dani's graph on both PS and FT are highly negative with no real upswings. His defenders bring up AIEV graphs regarding his hu matches with Berri... has anyone actually seen these graphs??? Someone please explain to me why Dani is held in such high regard in these forums...
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Old 05-14-2017, 01:02 AM   #169
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Why does 2p2 and specifically NVG love Dani? Anyone else who has his graph would get trashed. There are people on here who think Isildurrrr was just a fish on a heater, but at least there are upswings in his graph. Dani's graph on both PS and FT are highly negative with no real upswings. His defenders bring up AIEV graphs regarding his hu matches with Berri... has anyone actually seen these graphs??? Someone please explain to me why Dani is held in such high regard in these forums...
Not sure about Dani's graphs, but I am pretty sure he or Isildurrr or even Gus Hanson could probably crush you and most professional players HU.
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Old 05-14-2017, 01:53 AM   #170
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

It took Gus 20 million to quit and I'm sure anski has a lot less than that to lose. Enjoy the railing while it lasts because you won't be seeing him play high stakes on Stars much longer.
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Old 05-14-2017, 02:58 AM   #171
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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It took Gus 20 million to quit and I'm sure anski has a lot less than that to lose. Enjoy the railing while it lasts because you won't be seeing him play high stakes on Stars much longer.
thanks for the quality expert analysis of the situation joedot.
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:10 AM   #172
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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This is different from Hanson, who was losing at the highest stakes online, but had made a lot from live MTTs, backgammon, and Full Tilt.
If only El Chapo used the "I won the $14 billion you found on my property in backgammon" defense and had a jury of NVGers he'd be a free man right now.
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:14 AM   #173
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Not sure about Dani's graphs, but I am pretty sure he or Isildurrr or even Gus Hanson could probably crush you and most professional players HU.
Yes, I am sure Dani could crush me in HU. But guess what? He isn't playing me. The worst D1 basektball player with one hand would crush me in a 1v1 basketball game, but it isn't getting him into the NBA.

He can't beat his current opponent. And really that is all that matters (in the context of his poker career).
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:19 AM   #174
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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Originally Posted by jacetms View Post
Why does 2p2 and specifically NVG love Dani? Anyone else who has his graph would get trashed. There are people on here who think Isildurrrr was just a fish on a heater, but at least there are upswings in his graph. Dani's graph on both PS and FT are highly negative with no real upswings. His defenders bring up AIEV graphs regarding his hu matches with Berri... has anyone actually seen these graphs??? Someone please explain to me why Dani is held in such high regard in these forums...
Because a lot of poker players (more so the younger ones who play predominantly on line) have a tendency to have quite a blinkered view of players who are "big name" players and make incorrect assumptions that for a big name player on a big downswing, "oh, it must have something to do with variance", or "it *is* down to variance", whereas if the big name player has a big upswing then they are "an absolute beast", or a "complete sicko", or "crushing".

The outlook above is obviously completely irrational without real evidence of the player's actual playing ability at the stakes and against the strength of opponent in which the downswing/upswing has taken place.

And in this specific downswing under discussion, one can only cite negative variance as a significant component of Dani Stern's recent downswing if we can get to see a reasonable amount of his hands to see if he has been dealt much worse hole cards than his opponent and/or has run a lot under EV in flop/post flop situations.

My *instinct* is that the sample size during the downswing is big enough to suggest that negative variance being a factor is likely to not be a big factor, but more likely to be somewhere between no factor at all and a small to medium factor. Plus, without any hand evidence we can also not completely rule out that he has been getting better hole cards than his opponent and/or running above EV with flops/post flop.

The latter is possible but very unlikely as it is very hard to run well and lose chunks over a decent sample of hands, but what is very likely IMO is that Berri Sweet has a playing edge over him and that Dani Stern has probably suffered increasing damage to his confidence during the HU battle and therefore began to play worse/go on tilt.

I have already been flamed for my views by some posters in the (now closed) other thread about his downswing and presented with all kinds of maths based evidence of deviation from the norm regarding possible parameters of negative variance over samples of ~50K hands.

These graphs are fine (and perfect) if we were applying them to a HU battle between two bots of identical ability, and reasonably logical if the player in question was one who has been a consistent winner over a big sample at similar stakes and against a similar strength of opponents but has now hit a downswing. But this is not the case with Dani Stern, so without us seeing hands dealt and hand history evidence, the more logical assumption/guess is that he has been losing due to a negative skill edge with perhaps some increases in losses also due to tilt or his confidence being dented by the downswing.

Maths, simulations, number theory etc is all well and good, but we also need to apply some common sense and real world knowledge and experience when analysing things, otherwise we will be in danger of, to use a road safety analogy, completely 100% trusting a green traffic light and mowing down a pedestrian, or completely trusting a SatNav device and steering our vehicle into the central reservation of a motorway/highway.

This kind of favouring of the big name/famous player phenomenon is not unique to poker, we often see it with sports commentators, particularly noticeable in tennis and sometimes golf, where the commentators often give zero to very little credit to the less well known player when they are beating/dominating a big name/famous player until almost at the very point where it is obvious/almost a certainty that the underdog is going to win.

The most extreme example of this I have observed is when Wayne Grady won the 1990 US Golf Open and was barely even mentioned in the final round commentary until the last couple of holes because all commentary and focus was on Greg Norman (I think he was world number 1 at the time, certainly top 4). If memory serves me right I think it may have been a 3 ball in the group and the other player was also a much bigger name than Wayne Grady so was praised and focused on by the commentators, whereas Wayne Grady may as well have been invisible for 16 holes.

Last edited by SageDonkey; 05-14-2017 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 05-14-2017, 04:54 AM   #175
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Re: High Stakes Database trashes Dani Stern

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god forbid some people don't want to play poker forever. you can reply when you make millions.
I am sorry but i have no respect for someone that hasn't grinded for years. I am sure Doug is selling a good product and has tons of knowledge , he is responsible in that way, but please he is not a grinder, he is not like us, this is why i dont have much respect for him these days as a GRINDER. Besides from that, i watch his videos i like the guy he is a nice guy, he is entertaining and smart , but he is a retired grinder and should be looked at in that way. Some things i dont like about him is when he trashes other people in his videos for click bait and i don't like when people have huge egos.

So yeah, as i said, props to Dany for battling with Berri, i wish he recovers some of his losses against Berri and HSDB writes about that too.
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