The OP comes in shouting his mouth off and fails to even explain what his problem with the article was? He's a ****** until he proves otherwise.

Self-reporting in NVG? Sure, it's fine if you can sift through all the ****e to get the golden nuggets, and that's basically what poker journalists try to do. Take information, check it, and turn it into something readable. Same with social media - sort the wheat from the chaff and then use social media to get stories to a wider public.

Is it always high-quality? No, of course not, like every other 'industry'. Is it always correct, or objective? Again no, and again why is journalism different?

lol would we ever do without your valuable service? You're ****ing delusional just like everyone else in media.




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Fine, if that's your view then you can **** right off Who needs ignorant trolls anyway? Do something useful in your own life and you might not be so ****ing bitter.

Seems par for the course with a good chunk of other poker articles / media in general these days, thoughtless few paragraphs to get their daily quota complete.

Poker writers go to NVG and twitter to pool other peoples ideas together, mainstream media goes to facebook and twitter

While the news is obviously unflattering for Stern the article wasn't written in an insulting tone at all. If Highstakesdb was continually writing about his downswing I might understand but it's just one article about his publicly available poker results.

Sorry prahsk87, your post is too rational. Please leave by the nearest exit

Look guys, what exactly DO you want to see reported on or written about in poker? Nothing?

I want most of you to go away or at least acknowledge that you aren't vital to the sustainability of poker at all. Report news that deserves to be reported. When writing opinion pieces, make sure you have an idea of what you're talking about before publishing. Stop with any and all clickbait nonsense. It's not that difficult for you clowns to put in a decent effort to establish and maintain credibility but you don't even seem to care about that.

Yeah, you must have been barking up the same tree as me in not thinking it was that much of a big deal. Apparently we're wrong though, to the extent that I have been advised to end my own life. If only I'd known...

I hereby acknowledge that I am in no way vital to the sustainability of poker. You should acknowledge, however, that I have never, ever, ever said or believed anything to the contrary!

I've written thousands of articles for HSDB over the years, which ones in particular (other than this one) lead you to the conclusion that I need your rather patronising advice or for you to call me a 'clown'?

B,b,but champion you just wrote "As to your other point, today I've written a big piece on the PKR meltdown, an article on the WSOP 'tanking rules' update and an interview with a big-name pro".
Such a big timer!

Naw, just being objective- don't think poker "journalists" are highly coveted positions that are targeted by ivy-league type candidates, and more likely wages are in line with that.
I hope you do realize that your article on dani stern, and me scoffing and making speculative assumptions on your financials are very similar things.
You probably also appear as a delightful chap in dani stern's eyes

btw, if you still feel like playing the role of a "journalist" answer this plz- what do poker players gain from these types of exposure (especially online winnings/loss- in today's online climate), and what exactly are the incentives for them to deal with you guys?

to expect poker players to be welcoming of exposures and deal with the media bs without the incentives like big sponsorship money, is flat out ******ed.

I wasn't asking you. I already told you to **** off...and yet you're still here being offensive?

OK, bad smells do tend to linger somewhat... so if the poker media offends you so much with its clickbaity bull****, why are you here in NVG, where 90% of everything is the same clickbaity titles coupled with troll posts?

I wasn't aware that NVG posters were held to some sort of journalistic standard. And I don't agree with your "90% clickbait" assessment anyway.


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How about you acknowledge that the title is clickbait and misleading? The title heavily implies that Dani has lost more than Gus, when in reality it's a small fraction. The $/hand lost over a small sample of huplo is bigger, but focusing on that is also misleading, because it's a small sample of a very high variance game.

What if I play a single hand of 200NL, and lose a buyin. My $/hand is now -$200. I guess I'm "losing bigger than Gus Hansen" now, right?

Fine. Have we all stopped the offensive language?

OK, so which part of Lioncub's article on hsdb (other than the title perhaps, which is almost never the individual writer's choice of words) fails a 'journalistic standards test?

Some articles do fail this test, a couple of my own I admit, but I'd say it is a huge minority of articles which don't come up to scratch in that sense.

My point with NVG is that for some reason it's ok to discuss all these things on this forum (Polk/Stern/Deeb/whoever has been naughty, or won or lost big/whoever scams/etc) but apparently such things should never reach a wider public, even when they're better written and better-researched?

The reason for some 'clickbait' titles isn't really, or solely, down to poker media being in it for a quick buck or whatever. Likewise the way articles are often written. Many readers nowadays have the attention spans of small gnats, for example, and the media has to cater for that (though which came first, the chicken or the egg, is another argument).

Personally, I'd love it if there was money in the poker industry for big investigative pieces, or funding for unlimited research into more interesting aspects of the game - but there isn't :/

Well you certainly don't know what I earn from HSDB but I expect it's probably more than you think by the way you're talking. It's also not my sole income, I have other interests.

Also I didn't scoff at Dani Stern at all. All I said in the article was that he had lost a significant amount of money to one particular player. That is just a fact. That other player also happens to be a really good highstakes poker player so there is no shame in losing to him. In fact I said that the games were really entertaining and I hoped he would turn things around because I enjoy watching him at highstakes.

I did speculate that perhaps he might drop down in limits if he continues to lose at highstakes. Again, this isn't in any way scoffing or deriding Dani, and in fact I only speculated it because he himself talked in interviews about how he dropped down for a couple of years from nosebleeds to 5/10 and 10/20.

As to your other question, we deal with high stakes pros quite often and have interviewed a ton of them including jungleman12, ben86, Sauce123, Ike, Kanu, wcgrider, Lrslzk, odd_oddsen, Scott Seiver, Phil Galfond and plenty more. Most of those guys (if not all) were initially interviewed before we ever hid any graphs so obviously didn't have too much of a problem with us. Lots of high stakes pros have said they love the site and we generally have good relationships with any highstakes pro we have any dealings with.

Also, the incentive to us is to provide the railbirds with live rolling results of the biggest games along with hand replays, reports on the action, and league tables of results. The fans of online highstakes poker are our main concern. Always have been and always will be.

Yep, I will also acknowledge that

I get the title was clickbaity and perhaps annoying, I get that. But I stand by the article in that it wasn't particularly derogatory to Dani, it showcases our functionality, and it was just a light piece on a highstakes pro who is on a pretty brutal downswing.

I really don't think it deserves the level of indignation that a few of you have shown. Seriously, it's really not that big a deal!!

I'm not of the opinion that these stories should be hidden from the public. The problem is that when media scumbags get a hold of these stories, context is often lost or omitted, for one, and that's because journalists always feel the need to spice up the story or they have an ulterior motive to skew the facts, such as PokerNews being paid by Stars. On NVG, we get accounts of what happened straight from the source or from people with direct knowledge of the situation, which is a vast improvement. At that point, the masses can decide for themselves if the people in question are credible or not. The poor English/writing generally isn't a problem, and it's certainly something that media scumbags care too much about just because they're good at it. Maybe there's an opportunity to be Shaun Deeb's proofreader/translator but that's about it.


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Scumbags? Ok Whatever your profession is I sure hope I get to write about it someday, because it's almost certain to be full of scumbags if you're anything to go by. How's that for a generalisation?

So, I'm off to write something nice about Shaun Deeb - even if it's not true - because it's the only job in town apparently and I gotta suck up a bit to get it!

You people get $50 max per article and you act like your work and profession are capable of saving the world. It's truly remarkable.


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Clickbait titles are just disrespectful to the reader, so you should expect some disrespect back.

The other problem is you mention nothing about variance or clarify the difference between Gus's sample and Dani's. This combined with the title is likely to mislead a reader, which is something you should be trying your hardest to avoid, but it doesn't seem like you are.

Not a big deal though, you're right about that. And I'm glad that you acknowledge the title is clickbait, but you didn't say you're going to stop using clickbait titles.

Considering the title is a lie you're not that different from CNN.

Hahaha! Ok that's officially the most ludicrous accusation in this entire thread!!

I act like my work and profession is capable of saving the world?? I really, really don't!! I mean wtf man? That's amazing!

Jeez, you're going full ****** on this steelers Come on then, tell us all what you do for a living? How much do you get per NVG troll for example?

So he was right about the $50.

Yeah and the guy is acting like he could beat Dani at HUPLO too. If he's such a hot shot why doesn't he jump into the games? He's bragging about all this money he gets writing articles, why not take some of that $$$ to the tables and put your money where your mouth is!!