lol so you would rather take 4th place than 1st place because you think the guy who got 1st place wasn't playing to win??

im not talking about tournaments btw because im a poker player not a tournament player. since you brought up the main and your disapproval of the other players play i want to point out to you that you seem to lack a strong understanding of ICM and the marginal utility of money. The first million and second million you cash is worth more than the 8th million. The goal of a poker tournament is not to win the tournament, its to make money. If playing tight at the end might make you an extra couple million but reduce your chance of winning slightly than do that.

im not saying you are scared of them. im saying, without knowing you at all, that the final 18 players in the main are almost all better players than you. based on your reasoning of wanting to win instead of jump up the payscale. when you get to the final table 2nd makes a LOT more than 4th. why are you calling those 18 players nutless wonders?? you sound mad.

i agree you should dress better if you're going to be on TV.

Whether women can be as successful as men at the very highest levels of poker is not really relevant to this discussion....because so few players, male or female, are successful at the highest levels of poker. Yet casino poker is still completely male dominated even at the lowest levels.

This is in huge contrast the something like competitive Scrabble, where the top division is overwhelmingly male, but participants in the lower divisions are mostly women. What makes competitive Scrabble so much different than poker? My assertion would simply be that women like competitive games just like men, but they also don't like to be in environments where they are constantly singled out, either explicitly or implicitly. More women play competitive Scrabble because more women play competitive Scrabble; it's nothing inherent in the game or the different psyche of the sexes.

FWIW, at the risk of wading into even more controversial territory, my impression is that:
A.) the average female tournament player I've played against is worse than the average male player,
B.) the average female NLHE cash game player is about equal to the average male player, and
C.) the average female LHE cash game is better than the average male player.

The Scrabble info above is strong circumstantial evidence that women aren't in the top few percent aptitude wise when competing against men. Underlining this is that women are much more avid readers than men which one would think would give them a word knowledge advantage.

Interesting also that poker tournaments have some required aptitude elements similar to Scrabble in so far as the amount of overall tournament/game play strategy that is required in addition to playing individual hands and streets. (words)

Perhaps many women don't play poker because they know they're not that good at it so would lose money.

Sure, maybe.

Good job I'm not actually saying that's how most women feel then, isn't it?

What I'm saying is that in various media if there's a woman who has any success in poker then it's positioned as a woman beating men at their own game. That's how that woman is represented to the world, and therefore women who take notice will ask themselves whether beating men at their own game is something that appeals to them. It may be an attraction to some.

Of course women who play poker generally do so because they have a desire for competition. That's the point of the game and if you like poker then you almost certainly like being competitive.

However, there are lots of ways for people to be competitive, and the question is why women don't pick poker as a pursuit over other things (assuming they also want to be competitive in large numbers).

I don't really think that poker having a macho image is subjective. It's pretty obvious it does for the most part and in that respect can be viewed a bit like hunting, fishing, shooting, whatever. Women may or may not be put off the image, but it isn't exactly represented as a pursuit for women; it's marketed more towards men. Not marketed in the sense that sites like PokerStars are deliberately marketing to attract men over women, but marketed in the sense that when you see poker in movies, television, music videos etc, it goes hand in hand with violence, womanizing, various male fantasies.

Not sure why anyone would choose to be blind to that.

Guys, I have already given the real and obvious reason.

Male poker players are gross, stink, and are creepy to be around. Every person responding so far has just skimmed over this fact.

It is an issue, and also unpleasant for male players who are not in the stinky or creepy group of men.

I took a break from cash games and when I played again recently I immediately noticed a horrible aura. It was an aura of misery and semi-death. Played okay and won small but did not enjoy the whole experience at all so am going to play only tournaments now.

This is why tournaments are a more natural fit for female players. Tournaments are the more respectable, sanitized version of poker and more likely to attract women into the game.

Thank you for your replies.

I am not trolling, I am not misogynistic. I want more women in poker. I would love to sit down with 8 chicks at the table.

You guys can jump up and down as much as you like how you know a woman who is super good and can totally crush but this will not change the perception that women are easy money. A survey on this question will confirm this. The mods will never approve of this survey because they do not want to seen to be encouraging misogyny, even though this is not.

I'm going to start a thread asking for suggestions on how to get more German men into the game and argue that it's just good for the game cause more players = more money.

The reason people suggest you're trolling is because it should have been extremely obvious that your views would derail this thread. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong. If you'd "love to sit down with 8 chicks at the table", then why not just keep your thoughts about OP's motives to yourself and let people try to figure out ways to help create the situation you purport to love? It just makes no sense at all - you apparently would love to have more women at the table, and someone starts a thread asking how this can be made to happen - what good comes from you jumping in with your SJW labels and encouraging the Checkmakers of the world?

Op is the troll calling male poker players buffoons at best or misogynists at worse with this bs, "the female players I know all say they are constantly insulted, flirted with, and/or made to feel they don't belong".

He must live in some distant parallel universe because in and around Vancouver BC, I have only seen female players insulted or flirted with once in a blue moon, like almost never and I play a lot and there are often women playing.

His post is a fiction which he used to pat himself on the back[what a gentleman!] while he tut tut's others.

Feel free to read the posts by the women in this thread. I know you don't usually listen to women but maybe give it a try before posting your drivel. Clown.

If you want more women to play tell them the truth, poker is a game of math and communication(studying people) and sometimes, emotion. The math is simple, and women are good at communication. But warn them too by telling them it's also a game of decision-making and sometimes even, confrontation, and wouldn't it be nice to practice and get better at those skills in a safe and controlled environment?

I used to think to sell it to women who enjoy the company of men for that reason but the female posters in this thread who have expressed solidarity with op have warned me off that idea.

"I know you don't usually listen to women" -- more troll.

"Clown" -- and name calling. Your parents must be proud.

I respect your point Bobo Fett and thank you for saying it in a eloquent and respectful way. The purpose of my comments were to reveal the lies that other posters say to lure in women that they want to take advantage of.

My comments that women are not as good as men, probably do not encourage them to come to the table. I agree with this, and yes it is damaging to my hip pocket.

There is, however, a more important point here, much more important than money and that is to call out the deceit people spin to feel better about themselves and take advantage of people. The deceit in this case are the posters who claim that "more women in poker are good for the game because more players=more money." This claim is warm and fuzzy and I kinda feel good writing it. What it does not state is the underlying truth that these posters believe that women are not as good as men and when I call them out on it, they call me a misogynist.

This thread is a brainstorm written mostly by men on strategies to bring more easy money into the game. In this case the easy money is women. I am pointing out the predatory nature of this and the lies people tell to line their own pocket and feel better about themselves.

Whilst I would love to play with 8 women because I like easy money, I draw an imaginary ethical line in the sand in recruiting those 8 women into the game. And further, I state openly that I believe that men are better than women at poker and do not hide behind a lie which I do not really believe.

Finally, I take issue with the posters who call out other men for being 'macho' and then my sexuality and manhood is questioned. I am defending masculinity and disagree with the rhetoric which is often spun when the topic of women participating in x event comes up. No one has ever questioned why more men don't participate in flower arranging or cupcake baking. No one has ever said that the lack of male participation is because these activities are female dominated and the women who participate should be less feminine.

YOU take issue with your manhood being questioned? YOU?!? Weren't YOU the one who mentioned castration?? You're either a horrible troll, a liar, or the biggest hypocrite on this forum.

My parents? What are you, 12? And yes, they would be proud of my restraint for only calling you clown after your condescending and insulting post. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. Clown.

ok, I give you that one. Let's get back to the point.

Hm. That actually went better than I expected.

I don't know..... May be it's because I am working in a male dominated area, but I don't have a problem with with sexist, misogynous, trying to bully me, harassing dudes. I know that all from my job. Men on average behave surprisingly similar in every area. However I definitely have a weak point. If a guy is plain normally nice to me, slightly flirty and tries to be plain pleasant company at the table, I rather play him soft. So in this sense it pays-off to have me at the table and be normal friendly.

But again, I play live something like twice a year .

I used to believe women who claimed live poker was an unwelcoming​ environment for them, but if you say that's not the case, I guess I'll have to take your word for it. Thanks for clearing this up.

Strip poker end thread.

Well this thread escalated and then slightly de-escalated quickly.

I completely agree with this.

I would have to disagree that men act similar everywhere. I also work in a male dominated industry where I am always the only female engineer. I've deleted with different situations like being paid less than my equal coworkers, but the men have never acted or treated me the way men do in poker. Working with men, they don't question my abilities or automatically think they are better or feel like I'm intruding on "their" field. I am treated as an equal and just like everyone else; I don't feel like my gender affects how anyone thinks of me.
In poker it's the opposite. The men have preconcieved ideas of me soley based on my gender. Almost every guy assumes he is better, some think they need to coach me at the table, and the atmosphere is that women are a guest in "their" game.
This has happened several times: I will sit down at a table with my boyfriend and play a hand, my boyfriend always tries to make funny comments and we tease each other, and some guy will ask if he is my coach or if I came with him so he could play. They never assume that I am playing because I want to or that I don't need a coach.

It was a roller coaster of emotions for a second. A very very short roller coaster.

i live with my wife and three daughters

when I go play my poker the last thing I want to see is a woman