FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

[NexusWR]

Originally Posted by la6ki

See, this is where your arguments really lose any sense that they might have had. I challenged you on this one a couple of months or so ago and your defense was simply ridiculous. You were claiming that Tapie could "rig" the deck. Are you still staying behind those claims?

I didn't say this. Please quote exactly what I said.

What I did say was someone who has shown a propensity to cheat in the past is more likely to cheat in the future. Do you disagree with this?

I understand you're trying to paint me as a 'rigtard' but I can assure you i'm anything but. I've played online since 2002 and not once have I believed it was 'rigged'. However - After all the scams and scandals i've seen in that time, would it not be naive to think nothing is going to happen? You have to be vigilant. You have to be dilligent. You have to ask yourself do I trust a known cheat to host a game that is known to be easy to cheat at?

I remember that when I asked you why he would rig the deck, you said that he might do this because he rigged a football game in the past. And when I asked you how one follows from the other, you said that it follows since both contain the word "rig" in themselves. Again, are you still staying behind those claims?

Again, please quote me because you are misquoting me and I can't respond to things I haven't said.

I have to admit one thing though. I thought you were either trolling or having a different agenda than normal posters. Now that you've stayed in this thread for so long, I give you credit for being genuine. I don't know if that's better or worse though...

I've hardly been in thread at all the last couple of months. I decided I was pissing into the wind and it was pointless trying to convince kevmode things were not going to go as smoothly as they hoped. Would you rather it was all blind optimism instead?

It's not the employees who ****ed players. It's people like Ray Bitar. And all those people WILL be gone. Why the hell should players boycott a brand new company that is in no way associated with those at the top who were doing all the stupid ****?

Absolutely and there a lot of people who don't deserve to get screwed by the actions of several (there are obviously more people culpable than we know at this moment in time) but there are also owners of $400m all over the world who have been screwed by the actions of those people.

UB/AP and now FTP have shown that these companes can screw people as much as they like and people will keep coming back for more. Hardly a deterrent to the next CEO who wants to do the same. Especailly if that CEO has been convicted for cheating in the past

[la6ki]

Originally Posted by NexusWR

I didn't say this. Please quote exactly what I said.

What I did say was someone who has shown a propensity to cheat in the past is more likely to cheat in the future. Do you disagree with this?

I understand you're trying to paint me as a 'rigtard' but I can assure you i'm anything but. I've played online since 2002 and not once have I believed it was 'rigged'. However - After all the scams and scandals i've seen in that time, would it not be naive to think nothing is going to happen? You have to be vigilant. You have to be dilligent. You have to ask yourself do I trust a known cheat to host a game that is known to be easy to cheat at?



Again, please quote me because you are misquoting me and I can't respond to things I haven't said.

Oh, dude... Please. I can't search through hundreds of pages. If you can find your quotes, be happy to share them. I remember that I asked you why would he be more likely to rig the deck if he has rigged a pointless football game so his players could rest. And your response was something like "the clue is in the name..."

And then I asked if I am more likely to kill a person because I have killed mosquitoes in the past. You did not respond to that. Your "more likely" argument is

Absolutely and there a lot of people who don't deserve to get screwed by the actions of several (there are obviously more people culpable than we know at this moment in time) but there are also owners of $400m all over the world who have been screwed by the actions of those people.

What part of "those people will not be part of the new FT" don't you understand?

UB/AP and now FTP have shown that these companes can screw people as much as they like and people will keep coming back for more. Hardly a deterrent to the next CEO who wants to do the same. Especailly if that CEO has been convicted for cheating in the past

Yeah, except UB/AP retained the same management after the scandal. Please explain how Tapie is responsible for the actions of Bitar/Lederer/Etc.? And tell me if he has more responsibilities (as the new owner of FT) than to fully repay players and NOT include the old bad apples in the management of the new company?

[NexusWR]

Originally Posted by la6ki

Oh, dude... Please. I can't search through hundreds of pages. If you can find your quotes, be happy to share them. I remember that I asked you why would he be more likely to rig the deck if he has rigged a pointless football game so his players could rest. And your response was something like "the clue is in the name..."

And then I asked if I am more likely to kill a person because I have killed mosquitoes in the past. You did not respond to that. Your "more likely" argument is






What part of "those people will not be part of the new FT" don't you understand?



Yeah, except UB/AP retained the same management after the scandal. Please explain how Tapie is responsible for the actions of Bitar/Lederer/Etc.? And tell me if he has more responsibilities (as the new owner of FT) than to fully repay players and NOT include the old bad apples in the management of the new company?

If you're going to quote me, it's up to you to find the correct quotes. I deny saying anything like what you're suggesting, so until you come up with something that I actually said, it's pretty hard to have a discussion with you.

Saying that, you do think FTP haven't stolen anything, so maybe it's best I don't anyway.

[EYESCREW]

My feelings toward BTG wrt to cheating customers or rigging the deck boils down to this. If this company is making decent money and all is going well the likelihood of him doing anything shady seems remote. However, given Tapie's history, if the company starts to struggle financially it wouldn't surprise me one bit for him to start finding creative ways to cut corners and improve the bottom line. This includes cheating. And please don't snap back with the argument "he has too much to lose". We all know that argument is a crock of fondue.

That's just a gut feeling I have and while it may sound like I'm taking a shot at Tapie I don't really mean it to come across that way. I think a lot of people in Tapie's position would do the same thing if FT started to fail because cheating customers to make extra $$$ would just be so freaking easy. Look at all the kids caught up in online cheating scandals these days. Some of them we'd have never thought would do anything like that as they seemed so successful there was no reason but alas the lure of easy money can corrupt just about anybody. This includes BT.

[FTPlayerNHell]

Sorry, but all gaming industry background checks are based on the idea that a person who has been caught cheating or committing a crime, is more likely to steal than someone with a clean record.

It's pretty naive to assume that Tapie should get a clean slate when estimating imaginary hedge predictions. The reality is that if this dude really brings all this cash to the table to pay back a debt he had nothing to do with, we don't give a **** what he did in the past, the industry will give him a chance.

I would accept my bankroll from Al Queda right now. Whether or not I would play on their site would be based on the strength of their rakeback.

[robkey69]

any1 think gtb could of pulled out because of this week news about rush poker not been exclusive to full tilt.

[Big Mack]

Originally Posted by robkey69

any1 think gtb could of pulled out because of this week news about rush poker not been exclusive to full tilt.

link if possible?

[robkey69]

http://www.latestpokerbonuses.com/po...ts-rush-poker/

[himomitsme]

Originally Posted by robkey69

any1 think gtb could of pulled out because of this week news about rush poker not been exclusive to full tilt.

not at all.
It is very very very very unlikely that they for some reason thought that FT had a patent on rush while the whole world knew they didn't have one, imo.

[robkey69]

patent was in early stages

[coduresa]

Originally Posted by robkey69

any1 think gtb could of pulled out because of this week news about rush poker not been exclusive to full tilt.

Yes,that could be possible.Something must have happened which prevented the negotiations from going according to plan.That why it would be very nice to get new information,but as I understand J.Ifrah is not answering emails lately as well-anybody think that is another good sign......?I don't.

[himomitsme]

Originally Posted by robkey69

patent was in early stages

yeah they had their 'patent PENDING' on it.

this topic had its own thread btw: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...valid-1132622/

[robkey69]

oh ,cheers

[la6ki]

Originally Posted by EYESCREW

This includes cheating. And please don't snap back with the argument "he has too much to lose". We all know that argument is a crock of fondue.

Oh, yeah. And who exactly are those "we"? If you're talking about you, Nexus, and hdemet, I'd agree with you.

That's just a gut feeling I have and while it may sound like I'm taking a shot at Tapie I don't really mean it to come across that way. I think a lot of people in Tapie's position would do the same thing if FT started to fail because cheating customers to make extra $$$ would just be so freaking easy. Look at all the kids caught up in online cheating scandals these days. Some of them we'd have never thought would do anything like that as they seemed so successful there was no reason but alas the lure of easy money can corrupt just about anybody. This includes BT.

Cool. Now you just sent the whole online poker industry to hell. What would stop stars from cheating customers if something starts going wrong in their business in the future? And if your argument is so general anyway, I don't see why we're even discussing it in this thread. You should perhaps start a new thread about how online poker is shady in its nature.

Since you're basing everything on your gut, let me share a few thoughts from my intuition. What if Tapie is actually quite less likely to cheat customers precisely because of his past? He knows that recidivism is hated way more than first-time cheating, so he'll be extra reluctant to do anything shady again.

Your argument is based on as much facts as mine (close to zero).

[EYESCREW]

Originally Posted by la6ki

Oh, yeah. And who exactly are those "we"? If you're talking about you, Nexus, and hdemet, I'd agree with you.



Cool. Now you just sent the whole online poker industry to hell. What would stop stars from cheating customers if something starts going wrong in their business in the future? And if your argument is so general anyway, I don't see why we're even discussing it in this thread. You should perhaps start a new thread about how online poker is shady in its nature.

Since you're basing everything on your gut, let me share a few thoughts from my intuition. What if Tapie is actually quite less likely to cheat customers precisely because of his past? He knows that recidivism is hated way more than first-time cheating, so he'll be extra reluctant to do anything shady again.

Your argument is based on as much facts as mine (close to zero).

You're entitled to your opinion but if the Three Stooges can make a run at your bankroll there's no doubt in my mind Tapie could do it also.