We are 100% sure that unless they wanted them public they are not available. We have owned or directed many US LLCs. It does depend on which jurisdiction the LLC was incorporated in if there is even an annual report.

We just checked Delaware and there doesn't seem to be a Tiltware, LLC (which is the most private), so quiet possibly it was formed in California where they would have to file an annual report, but this would consist of basic information like address for service, corporate officers, etc....no financial information, sorry Harry.

Also, while we think this is interesting, really it doesn't tell us much at all - although the look inside of PK is interesting. We would guess that PKs true operating expenses are around €110M/yr as of 2010, which means they are currently burning ~€9M/month (which isn't too far from my original estimate months ago). Assuming they have managed to cut some expenses this means that in the two months down they have burned at least ~$20M. Sick....

Grant Throton better watch out....they are someone who could have a lawsuit - wonder if they audited the gaming companies...

We would also need to know what the P&L for the various gaming companies were like and Alderney doesn't make that information public. Then PK Consulting and finally Tiltware which, as we mentioned is unavailable publicly.

I would be shocked if the hearing isn't postponed.


Edit: Tiltware is a California LLC

Why do you say that? (all I know that isn't public about the agcc is that nobody I talk to knows anything)

Nice post, that takes courage.

FWIW your situation does sound extremely difficult and I really hope things work out for you, with or without online poker.

What's the point of conducting the hearing? At this point might as well just give FTP more time to see what they can do in terms of finding a buyer.

I don't see how at this point the hearing can help players get their money back?

This is very likely


IMO,The last week+ plus was FTP setting it up so the hearing could be delayed once again. The Jeff Ifrah comments to media and 2p2 and their statement was all done to get a delay. FTP is trying to make it sound like investors could come and save them but this just isn't going to happen. They just will continue to delay as long as possible.

Total speculation obviously but:

FTP will trot out the same routine: we need more time to find a purchaser and it's in the best interests of the players that we sell the company. What's the AGCC going to say other than, "OK, go ahead"? They don't want to be seen as preventing a potential sale, and really there's nothing meaningful that they can do anyway.

This one?:

http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/userf...t%20270711.pdf

or this one....

http://www.gamblingcontrol.org/FTP_statement.pdf

+1 But IMO AGCC will still follow protocol and hold the hearing, just so public aware that it's definitely FTP requesting an extension.

That hearing was such a waste of a day for the public and media who were present, I doubt many people will bother going to the next one. Although it may depend on what transpires in the next few days..

Agreed not much came out of it but you must admit that it was pretty open book for the players; A room in London where limited public and press could attend to witness FTP requesting private chats, non payment of the £250k revealed and a friendly but firm extension to licence suspension granted in interest of players.

Not sure KGC would lay this sort of hearing on.

I don't see why the AGCC should be looked upon as preventing a potential investment unless FTP reps show/prove in the commissions eyes that a genuine party is interested and major progress has occurred as far as negotiations go with a prospective investor since July 26th.

Also TT, does the outcome of this next hearing change anything as far as your class action lawsuit goes? For example, would certain outcomes from this hearing hinder or expedite future proceedings with your lawsuit?

Can we get some updated cliffs. Gets so frustrating reading all these new posts day in and day out. We are bout 5 months in here and I dont really like the way its unfolding. I have 14.1k on FT FWIW, which was a lil less then 50 percent of my bankroll on 4/15. Current roll less then 1k cash and $650 in bank account. Thank you for ruining my poker career FT

Can't say for sure but I think the likelihood of a federal judge in the SDNY being influenced in any way by a decision of the AGCC is rather low.

Aside from the last ftp announcement and Jeff Iffrah's pending dismissal/resignation from one of the class action suits nothing has changed.

We essentially agree. JI essentially said the same thing in one of his posts where he mentioned the hearing date wasn't set in stone. This is going to go on until either they find a buyer, give up or more likely run out of money - the cost of failure is so great they will do what they can to keep the doors open. The hearing date with the AGCC at this point is practically irrelevant. Even if the AGCC were to remove FTPs licenses, FTP could 'theoretically' be sold. At this point, its highly unlikely that, IF FTP can be sold, that FTP wouldn't be sold as a package to a new entity which itself would have to be licensed by the AGCC (or someone else). In any case, if FTP still has the money and the will to go on, does anyone think the AGCC wants to be blamed for not giving them more time if they needed it? Obviously crazier stuff has happened, so we wouldn't say anything isn't possible, but its kind of irrelevant anyway at this point as the license is the least of their problems. Of course, if in fact they are really running out of money over there, then its doubly irrelevant as this will end soon.

Footnote: Nothing above implies we think FTP will be sold or that some 'hearing' will happen, but it likely it will just be put off again if FTP is willing to move on after that date. We think the license is nice to keep for a sale, but at this point, we really dont think it matters, so in this sense, the hearing is somewhat a mute point.


LOL

128 pages and much more in previous thread and we still down know our "date" for our money...
nobody knows... that's why people talk here over and over again about crazy things and nobody knows what's going to happed at 15th sept...
another "pls later, oh we need to discuss with investors"
or "ok you have licence back" or " bankrupcy,gg cu later " ?
it's like 90% vs 1% vs 4%? i dont know,,,

Disagree about 110% (also speculation btw)

At the time of the last "hearing", the vibes of "we have an investor oh so close to signing up" were heating up the wires worldwide.
The thinking was, all the sht would come out and kill the deal.

That ship has already sailed imo. All their sht is going to come out anyway (small parts of it are already out there) and they know this. Any "investor" who has they keys to ~$400mm should know how to accomplish a decent due diligence. Too many people are watching to be able to hide much now. Even if there was someone willing to try to resurrect FTP in any way, he will have to know about all the skeletons. So using the "don't kill our deal" card has already been overplayed.

OTOH, neither the civil or criminal case has been resolved with the DOJ. Not only will infractions that occured in violation of their AGCC license be made public, they will not be able to either confirm or deny any part of it, because anything they say, one way or the other, could be used against them. Just one more nail imo.The possible withdrawal of J. Ifrah should have no bearing, since he was not the attorney of record having to do with the sale etc.

If they are not able to defend, they fall at the mercy of the AGCC as to continuing the suspension of their license, or revoking.
As long as the hearing takes place, I see no problem with continuing in the "suspended" state, which is enough not to kill any pending deal, although there is no reason to believe any "sale" is imminent any longer, nor have they said so in any court iirc.

The AGCC has an obligation to be sure the hearing takes place and in public. They are obligated to put forth how many warnings were given out, and when, as well as how either they were hoodwinked with false documents over time, or they were complicit in turning a blind eye. While no matter which way that spins, they can never come out smelling like a rose, but they have to consider repercussions against themselves as well (white listing being the least of their potential problems).
If they have clean hands, they don't need to save FTP. They have enough other clients and their future to think about.
If their hands are dirty, no delay has enough soap in it to clean them up.

JMHO

Currently the default scenario is that no investor can be found and that the most likely outcome is that FTP go bankrupt as they cannot last much longer without outside funds.

However I believe that there are alternative solutions to FTP's problems that can be achieved and that would satisfy all concerned parties and that are actually being worked through as I type.

Hopefully all the interested parties will accept a compromise to what each is currently insisting upon and which will hopefully ultimately lead to all players getting their money back and FTP being open for business to the rest of the world.

Should the interested parties remain imovable then I'm afraid the future will look bleak.

Interested parties = players + FTP Owners + Investor + DoJ + AGCC

Needless to say any new operational FTP will be under completely new ownership and management

Wish I could be more specific but I reckon this is last chance saloonfor FTP but I get the impression from recent posts that a lot of people are missing the point regarding what may or may not happen in the near future leading up to and beyond the next AGCC hearing

Such as what?

I tend to agree but only if the AGCC is convinced that no progress has taken place since the last hearing.

Harry, we bet we know what you are thinking. We considered it months ago, but we are not sure it works, due to lots of issues, although if its the same thing, its still full of problems and it doesn't solve the owners problems in the short run (we PM'ed you).

You obviously got some new info. Try to share the most of it you feel you can imo .

Perhaps you won't mention the suspension of FTP's licence in your class action

Pocket Kings Financial statements are very interesting, thanks for posting Harry. I hope someone smarter than me can do some more thorough analysis - I've studied a bit of accountancy and it bored me to tears. I know enough to see a few red flags in there however.

Figures I find interesting -

-Their 'Cash in Bank' Is this significantly lower (£39m) than I think it should be?

- The jump in gross profit from 09/10 with almost exactly the same margin (£2m) To me this says their 'costs' are linked to projected profits, not the other way round.

- The paid 587 staff almost £34m in 2010.

- Receipts from sale of fixed assets in 2009 ~£50m - Anyone know what this is?

Like I said I hope someone else can go through this more thoroughly - it's late here and accountancy hasn't got any more exciting.