FTP Discussion Thread (Everything but big new news goes here. Cliffs in OP)

[Feel]

Originally Posted by NEMplsJW

howard and friends have your money not the doj.

I get goose bumps just like the feeling of a girl friend coming up from behind and suprises with a kiss on the side of the neck. each and every time I load a HH in to universal hand replayer with the Full Tilt skin on.

Spoiler:

FUUU LUCK ffs...... i miss FTP

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by Feel

I get goose bumps just like the feeling of a girl friend coming up from behind and suprises with a kiss on the side of the neck. each and every time I load a HH in to universal hand replayer with the Full Tilt skin on.

Spoiler:

FUUU LUCK ffs...... i miss FTP

PS and FTP software was the nuts. especially FTP, so great.

[CANUCKEH44]

Originally Posted by three_dee

lolz .

Should have him crapping FTP BUCKS

[TheDarkElf]

Originally Posted by Wizzard89

so let me get this straight!
the DOJ (AMERICAN) said NO to the GBT deal because they would not guarantee that ROW would be repaid 100% of their balances within 90 days while knowing full well that they were at most going to pay americans back 20% at best???
Nice to know the american government thinks more about ROW than they do about their own!!! hahahahhaha ya right

you honestly believe that ??

I'm stating something very simple. The DOJ made no promises to US players. If you don't believe me, try reading their statements.

Subject: Poker can now confirm that Full Tilt Poker and Groupe Bernard Tapie have executed an agreement to further the transfer of FTP’s assets to GBT. This agreement was necessary to pave the way for the US Department of Justice to take possession of the assets voluntarily being forfeited by Full Tilt.

This was the next step in the complicated process of transferring Full Tilt assets (by way of the US Department of Justice) to Groupe Bernard Tapie. It follows the November 17th agreement between DOJ and GBT that allows GBT to purchase forfeited FTP assets from the DOJ, likely via the Asset Forfeiture Fund, for an agreed-upon price of $80 million. In return, GBT also agreed to repay or otherwise make whole non-US players, who are owed over $150 million. The DOJ has agreed to dismiss the civil complaints for forfeiture against the FTP companies when and if the forfeiture of the assets is complete. The DOJ would then be responsible for Full Tilt’s liability to US players, which is also estimated to be about $150 million.1

I can confirm that none of the above happened. So I'm not sure why you are quoting it like it is a fact.

Originally Posted by momo_the_kid

In a statement given to DiamondFlushPoker.com, FTP attorney Barry Boss, of Cozen O’Connor, offered the following statement:

“To address issues reported today in the media and on blogs, Full Tilt Poker confirms that its agreement with Groupe Bernard Tapie has in fact been terminated. Despite this development, Full Tilt Poker is more optimistic than ever that its number one goal will be obtained: Full Tilt players will be repaid. "

Unless FTP lied again, the fact that they announced that they are more optimistic than ever when the GBT deal collapsed had to mean another buyer (PS) got involved with terms to repay all players.

You think they have recently taken an oath of honesty?

Originally Posted by DoTheMath

Poor Rafe Furst. People always seem to forget about him.

My bad. I realized a few minutes after I posted I forgot him, but it was too late to edit.

[SpecialOne]

All i have to say is that from 1 to 10 my frustration level is a solid 9.

[Franktposter]

Originally Posted by Diamond_Flush

Hypothetically speaking, if any certain person considered that he would play live poker again after BF because he felt he was entitled to do so, and if such hypothetical person felt that without some imagined vindication he would forever be known as a pariah in the poker community, the only way this hypothetical person would be able to be confident he could escape the in-person face to face disdain and everything that goes with it, might hypothetically be to put out feelers that he would play the main event this year if/when some deal were announced that worldwide players would be repaid, and that hypothetically this person would then pretend to take bows that he was responsible for such repayment, and that this person were to hypothetically think that anything he did in the past to aid in causing and continuing to cause such harm to millions and millions of people wouldn't matter anymore as long as they eventually were repaid, even without any help from him, this is exactly what this person might hypothetically want people to hear.

As for the real truth coming out soon so people know what really happened, I am all for it, and perhaps this hypothetical person can let me know when we should start doing that. I'm ready anytime.

Let's say hypothetically this person was a board member on April 15th. When said board member takes bows that he was responsible for such repayment, one might want to ask said person why they were the one negotiating a deal at all after April 15 when they
- had no experience handling a distressed asset sale or any large M&A deal
- had little or no connections to make such a deal happen
- had a tremendous conflict of interest

Had said hypothetical board member stepped aside and brought in distressed asset experts or any M&A experts rather than trying to handle the deal themselves, perhaps the players would have been paid a heck of a lot sooner.

Given the obvious conflicts and the lack of experience and connections, one might wonder what hypothetical motives this person might have had for keeping the deal so close to the vest and not allowing impartial outsiders in to help secure a deal in the best interest of the players.

[Go Get It]

^^

A new challenger has appeared.

[WindigoBob]

Originally Posted by Franktposter

Given the obvious conflicts and the lack of experience and connections, one might wonder what hypothetical motives this person might have had for keeping the deal so close to the vest and not allowing impartial outsiders in to help secure a deal in the best interest of the players.

One might suspect that such an outsider would take a look at the situation and then be seen leaving the premises muttering something about fraud and theft?

[DJRiccoLaw]

A serious question for those in the know here please..

Has the DOJ taken control of FTP assets?


Has the forfeiture taken place officially or do the FTP boys still own the company?

When did the forfeiture take place ?


This was a major stumbling block prior to November last year iirc?

Has this shareholder vote taken place or is it still in the hands of the old FTP BOD?

Who do I sue directly for my stolen FTP balance?

If a party of investors was seriously considering purchasing the assets and liabilities of old FTP who would they approach..

a) FTP ie HL RB RF and co or

b) THE DOJ???

[xXHotBoyAces420Xx]

Originally Posted by SpecialOne

All i have to say is that from 1 to 10 my frustration level is a solid 9.

Mines a 2.

Only reason it's so high is cause I'm mad I didn't sale my money right after this happened last year. 16 months, no cash, no control over when/how/what I'll get paid.

It's a joke but at this point not worth getting mad about.

[Zenzor]

Originally Posted by SGT RJ

This has been stated many times before, but it can't hurt to say again:

If your only concern is watching for major developments, you don't need this thread. Any major developments will have a stand alone thread in NVG. If you don't see any FTP thread on the front page of NVG other than this one, then nothing major has happened since the last time you checked.

There's almost zero chance you'd miss a major FTP development by just looking at the front page of NVG - the major news threads take weeks to drop off the front page. If this thread is driving you crazy and the only thing you are doing is checking for major developments, you're driving yourself crazy for nothing.

thread should be renamed to FTP rumor mill

[Gioco]

Originally Posted by DoTheMath

People think that when players deposit money on a poker site, the money in their poker accounts belongs to the players. It does not.

When you deposit money on a poker site, it is no longer yours. You have just given away ownership of the money. At best, it is a loan.

None of the money the DoJ seized belonged to players. It belonged to the sites and/or the payment processors.

When you loan $20 to your buddy Joe, the $20 in his wallet (or under his mattress) is not your money, it is his. He is free to do with it whatever he wants, even though he owes you $20. If he gets fined $20 for littering, and the authorities take the $20 in his wallet, they are not taking your money, they are taking Joe's money. It is not illegal for Joe to spend his last $20 on cheeseburgers when he owes you $20.

People need to realize that when they deposit on a poker site, they are giving up ownership of the money they deposit. All they get in return is a chance to play poker, and the status of unsecured creditor. The poker sites are not legally obligated to hang on to your money. The terms of their licence generally require them to not spend the amount you have deposited (until they have earned it as rake), but license terms do not generally have the same status as criminal law.

While this may be technically correct with regard to the ownership of funds; you cannot ignore that FTP made representations and inducements that player funds would be kept in secure, segregated accounts and always available for withdrawal. When it did so, it created a fiduciary obligation in itself to keep those promises. Its failure to keep those promises creates liability, the nature of which is determinable based on the facts surrounding the breach of fiduciary obligation (i.e. the facts will determine whether it was simple negligent breach of fiduciary obligation or something more serious such as intentional or fraudulent). The managing and executive principals of the organization may be personally liable for the breach and may be liable for punitive damages in state court, if someone would pursue them.

[SuperJez]

Originally Posted by Gioco

you cannot ignore that FTP made representations and inducements that player funds would be kept in secure, segregated accounts and always available for withdrawal. When it did so, it created a fiduciary obligation in itself to keep those promises. Its failure to keep those promises creates liability, the nature of which is determinable based on the facts surrounding the breach of fiduciary obligation

Correct, and the amended DOJ complaint with the civil suits added specifys it was Howard Lederer and Ray Bitar who jointly decided together to false represent to everyone their money was held seperate and segregated, and came up with a plan how best to do this.

[tamiller866]

FTP BOD are already being sued by players in both California and Nevada.

[SuperJez]

Originally Posted by SuperJez

Correct, and the amended DOJ complaint with the civil suits added specifys it was Howard Lederer and Ray Bitar who jointly decided together to false represent to everyone their money was held seperate and segregated, and came up with a plan how best to do this.

http://resources.pokerstrategy.com/2...09-20-2011.pdf page 63 onwards