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The real problem I've had with him is that lame-ass nickname. Who the eff came up with "E-dog" anyway? It was like he just needed one to be in the famous player clique or something...holy crap, every time I heard it on a poker vid I was then then ...

E-dog, well, that and all the lying and stuff too

Dont think he played Bay 101? or at least he wasn't a shooting star this year

Agreed. If anyone's really getting ready to do some major financial dealings, I can see wanting to know these types of things; however, for 95%+ of people here, tis not the case.

Bets off bets off

A couple of generalizations here. I've read most of the thread, but, skipped over 5 or so of the last pages. This came to me and I wanted to say it before I forgot it.

1. Poker in the long term is like the stock market (Just about 4 years behind in this case.) It's going to have it's highs and lows, we all know where it's at right now.

2. The "old school" verses "new school" of thought in poker is almost the exact opposite of "old school" verses "new school" as far as our country's economic mentality goes. Outside of poker, it's those "Occupy" freaks (New School) that are careless with their (or more likely others') money and expect things to come to them. IE: FTP and their old school pros who took the money and spent it as carelessly as possible... They just expected the gravy train to keep on rolling in. We all know now, that this seems to be more the case with the "old school" as far as poker goes. The "New School" poker players are the one's who were actually responsible with their money, which was what our older generations did outside of poker.

Just my thoughts.

Fair points all around. I guess I was asking Daniel specifically as he is perhaps the only widely recognizable player who is regarded as an upstanding person and out for the betterment of the game, and thus I was curious why he would feel conflicted at all about outing known scumbags.

Many of us may question your thought processes occasionally Mr. Negreanu, but I can't say how much I appreciate your time on here. The sponsorships that you receive are based on your greater public persona and charisma, and you certainly don't gain anything by answering questions from anonymous folks like us. The fact that you have given your time to let us get a greater glimpse into how a person of your stature thinks based upon your experiences speaks even greater volumes about you. Cheers!

So is the rest of the world, just replace fellow players with fellow people. Lots of people are greedy and selfish when money is involved, and they will lie, cheat, and steal to get more of it.

You notice it more in poker because of the nature of the game and because you're more involved with the poker world, but it happens plenty with other groups of people, and it always will.

he was late. he was a shooting star and he busted

my fiance keeps telling me it's a scam

Lurked the first 35 pages and THIS!! ^

Also, many of the comments itt show me that probably 15% of the posters itt actually play poker outside of of thier mother's basement.

Addiction happens. You get on a roll and you keep rollin all the way to your own funeral. My whole family consist of busto degens. As a poker player I fight it daily. Some of you are so condemming that it's obvious that you have never played higher than NL 50.

Yes, it appears that EL blew it big time. It's unfortunate. It happens to many. EL is the true definition of "Fish on a heater". I doubt anything he did was intentional. As a true degen you always believe that things will work out. You roll the dice and hope for the best.

Just because it was likely unintentional doesn't mean EL should not be held accountable.

It's funny, dozens of you itt idolized team FTP for years. Were you that naive to think that this was just some elite group with god like gambling skills?

Also, it's funny how when EL was rollin' nobody was saying **** except "sick life" and "balla". Now that he is left for dead it's "degen" and "scumbag".

I love NVG. Cool story.

DN is like that guy in high school that hung out with the cool kids and the nerds.

Wondering why Daniel didn't address this situation whatsoever in his weekly video blog?

Because he said a dozen times he would next week.

He said in this thread that he's already gotten material, which was Epic Poker League's bankruptcy, in this week's vlog and that he shall address the situation on EL in next week's vlog.

Nice. I remember him saying (HSP, maybe?) that he considers himself a link between the old school and the new school. Makes sense, especially given his tone in this thread.

I spoke to Daniel about all this at Bay 101 the other night and find him to be a pretty reasonable and open minded dude. I sympathize that it's super ****ing hard to be stone cold objective when people you're tight with do scummy things. If you've been in this industry even a little while, then you know how that is.

I told him I thought people who demonstrate this kind of behavior over time should be routinely outed for it because these types of people attempt to gamble/scam their way out of financial situations and often, either their money stream gets cut off or they get in too deep from betting money they don't have and reach a sum of debt that cannot be repaid without some form of miracle. And anyone who bet with this guy--be they a in the know card/sports sharp aware of previous payment issues or just someone who placed a bet thinking the guy they saw on TV could surely pay--is left holding the bag, a near certainty to be ****ed over the long run if said miracle does not come through. And miracles were outlawed as of Black Friday.

I like to think I'm a pretty well-informed guy in the industry. I ask a lot of questions to a lot of people, and make a point of knowing who's shady about things, but in some of the cases coming out lately about how shady well-known players were about their debt I was clueless. In all my brief interactions with Erick he "seemed like a good guy". He clearly handles himself well at the table. But he and guys like him have happily free-rolled people in bets they have no realistic chance of paying up on, and likely would have continued doing so if someone didn't reach the point of being so furious with the bull**** that they made a 2+2 post. I find it absolutely brilliant that a $2,800 debt caused this.

I told Daniel that I understand where he's coming from about the old school/new school. We agreed he more-so meant that there is a difference in mentality as a result of growing up in different conditions; older generation live pros find the notion of outing someone online impersonal and offensive, but the younger generation grew up with the internet and has acclimated to finding out everything about everyone online. Those of the previous generation make a point of informing people around them that have dealings with known degenerates that they are not reliable about money, but don't feel a need to out someone on a large scale. That said, I am still very much of my generation, and think that these things becoming known helps cleanse the industry of people who behave like scumbags when it comes to money.

OK, so who are you outting?

Oh, so you're the guy who owes DN $500,000???

Just kidding - seriously though, very sad a guy who was bringing in $250,000 a month for years has ended up like this. And in my opinion, he shouldn't have even been playing at Bay 101 - I would be scared to death to stake him with all the people he owes. Now all he's doing is adding to his debt. I know all he knows is poker but it could take years to hit a big tournament, especially with the fields getting tougher and tougher.

it doesnt matter what pro comments. where is edog he can have phil ivey stick up for him or doyle brunson. the guy still owes 500k to somebody, ya digg?

The old school new school argument is very relevant and while it doesn't excuse EL, it does validly place blame on those who chose to do business with EL. But its not quite the same old school/new school argument DN was making.

Read the next few sentences carefully. ERICK LINDGREN WAS PLAYING POKER BEFORE IT WAS SANITIZED FOR MASS CONSUMPTION. HE WAS PLAYING POKER WHEN GAMBLING WAS A MUCH WORSE WORD THAN IT IS NOW.

What types of people do you think played poker before the boom? What type of people do you think were heavily into gambling before the boom? I'll give you a clue- not nerds like you. Not straight laced college grads. Daniel Negreanu (if I remember from ESPN) was trying to be a POOL HUSTLER before he got into poker. Phil Ivey slept under bridges because he gambled his bus money. Howard Lederer slept on park benches obsessing over chess. Does this sound anything remotely close to ANYTHING you have even thought about doing? I bet it doesn't. It used to be, and I know this from first hand experience, that you had to be rebellious, weird, or somehow afflicted with gambling addiction to even be into gambling.

So ESPN shows the world series of poker with hole cams and the movie rounders comes out. Now everyone is watching poker and these guys who were into poker/gambling before the boom are made into stars by the editors at ESPN. BUT THEY ARE NOT LIKE YOU. Many of them are addicted to gambling. Phil Ivey has a sickness. Eric Lindgren clearly has a sickness. Some people who have a sickness are also very skilled at poker, luckily for them. But that does not cancel out the fact that they have a sickness.

Many people are coming out with judgmental BS when they have no clue of how to put gambling ethics into the context of how the game of poker has evolved from a societal standpoint. The fundamental irony is that these guys were into poker/gambling pre boom and hence made rich and famous for being what they still are, only now they are cursed for those very same traits.

So to all you people who came into gambling/poker after the boom who want to judge other people remember this: there was a gambling world before you came into it. If you don't respect it and it's ways you will get hurt and its not anyones fault but your own. If you don't like it GTFO.

updated cliffs in OP please.

hard to disagree with this and I think it's true that you gotta remember how the game used to work...I mean Lederer was playing in underground games in NYC, Doyle was like a gunslinger in the wild west...I am aware of where poker came from - the game is a lot different today and has a ton of media attention and a better image in many ways...yet the image of the game remains far from ideal for many reasons - but hey the image of politicians and journalists is far from ideal too - that's just how it is man

That would be free money to who books it. However, have not seen Johnny playing big games lately. But he still has a very good income and probably isn't hurting too bad.

The person who owes Daniel 500K is some random person (not a top pro). If it was a top pro Daniel would "out" the guy for "never seeing a dime." It's probably some run down guy or Daniel won the 500K in various bets that the guy never seen 100K in his life.

I mean if someone well known owed you 500K and you know you'd never see a dime ... you'd out them. But since not... it must be an unknown.

Sick though.