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Old 03-22-2010, 09:21 PM   #46
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

You fill out a form monthly specifying your winnings for that month.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:58 PM   #47
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

Ty.

And how do they control that? If a player uses the NT Card for example and doesnt use a NL bank account. Is there no control? I mean, how can they control if the amount is true? Of course, it would be stupid to earn 20k/month and tell them, that you earn 2k. I think you know, what I wanna know. Of course, if they catch you, you have a serious problem. But how can they do? (except living balla and tell them you earn 1k/month)

What about Rakeback and Bonusses? (maybe its just obvious, thats the same like winnings, dunno)
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:04 PM   #48
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

You are required by law to supply them with the correct data.

OK seriously, there is probably not a really good way for them to find out your real profits if you choose to commit fraud, unless they cooperate with Neteller and the likes, or when your screen-name is known and you are known, or something similar. However, both the sites and the payment processors still have your personal details, so it's possible that they cooperate with one of them some day and find out.

There's nothing really known about rakeback and bonusses, but they are probably considered gambling income too (so added to poker profits). If not, they are regular income and taxed with the standard income taxes (up to 52%).

Note: I am not a lawyer, not a tax professional, I have no knowledge about the law at all so just ignore everything in this post, just to be sure.

Last edited by █████; 03-22-2010 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:09 PM   #49
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by █████ View Post
You are required by law to supply them with the correct data.

OK seriously, there is probably not a really good way for them to find out your real profits if you choose to commit fraud, unless they cooperate with Neteller and the likes, or when your screen-name is known and you are known, or something similar. Both the sites and the payment processors still have your personal details, so it's possible that they cooperate with one of them some day and find out.

There's nothing really known about rakeback and bonusses, but they are probably considered gambling income too (so added to poker profits). If not, they are regular income and taxed with the standard income taxes (up to 52%).

Note: I am not a lawyer, not a tax professional, I have no knowledge about the law at all so just ignore everything in this post, just to be sure.
Thanks for your thoughts!
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:24 PM   #50
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by dentalrevenge View Post
more people should move to the UK.
There is already a queue the other side of the channel tunnel.

Double bonus for living in UK, I dont have to pay back my student loan either (repayments based on taxable income)
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:33 AM   #51
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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There are only two things I hate, people who are intolerant of other cultures and the Dutch.
John Dowie FTW
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:33 AM   #52
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

People should be taxed on gambling winnings other wise, Tons of Drug dealers are going to become professional "POKER PLAYERS" if they were smart, easy way to launder money IMO.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:57 AM   #53
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by PersianOyabun View Post
And how do they control that? If a player uses the NT Card for example and doesnt use a NL bank account. Is there no control? I mean, how can they control if the amount is true? Of course, it would be stupid to earn 20k/month and tell them, that you earn 2k. I think you know, what I wanna know. Of course, if they catch you, you have a serious problem. But how can they do? (except living balla and tell them you earn 1k/month)

What about Rakeback and Bonusses? (maybe its just obvious, thats the same like winnings, dunno)
It's simple, you are taxed on your monthly income. Rakeback is part of the income just like bonuses. Of course a smart player could choose when to get a bonus, eg. in the last week of a losing month. But if you earn $10.000 in january, lose $8000 in february and make $2000 in march you still have to pay tax over the $12.000, not $4000.

The problem is that in the past it was so hidden that it was not possible to monitor, so they had no idea what to do in such cases.
The only problem a player had was how to release money in amounts smaller than the threshold that gets you investigated for money laundering, apart from that he could just keep everything. Nowadays they are aware of poker and watch the results of tournaments in other countries. So there's no way you could win an EPT, have the money transferred to a Swiss account and then tell the taxman you're broke, they know you now.

Apparently the guy in the newspaper article won money in tournaments abroad, and when the tax agency approached him about it years later, he stalled and since then tries to postpone or evade paying up.

Online poker is still a grey area, as most people use Neteller/Moneybookers. If you win and cash out to NT/MB and withdraw it cash with the card they cannot see that. So a player who wins something like $5000 probably never has to bother with the taxman, but someone who wins $200.000 online will probably not bother withdrawing in $500 per day amounts.

Tournaments inside the Netherlands were always taxfree anyways, as one of the rules of Holland Casino is that winnings are paid with taxes already covered (they'd cover the tax).
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:26 PM   #54
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by uke_master View Post
the issue here isn't collecting tax, it is HOW the tax is being collected.

Clearly poker players SHOULD be taxed for the same reason that stock traders or heck any job where you profit at other peoples expense should be taxed.
strongly disagree
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:36 PM   #55
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by dentalrevenge View Post
more people should move to the UK.
Haha.
Prop bet they hit the pokerz in Wednesday budget? Nothing must escape the taxing.
What if you go on benefits "look for a job" and play poker in your spare time as a hobby?
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:05 PM   #56
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

damn thats some really bad news holand is the last liberal country left in europe and now they come with that wtf??
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:43 PM   #57
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by LiveActionPro View Post
People should be taxed on gambling winnings other wise, Tons of Drug dealers are going to become professional "POKER PLAYERS" if they were smart, easy way to launder money IMO.
This has started already years ago.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:24 AM   #58
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by onasis16 View Post
damn thats some really bad news holand is the last liberal country left in europe and now they come with that wtf??
we've had a cristian conservative Bush admiring party in charge for 7 years now. Before that it where socialists and now we prob get a racist fear preacher.

Half of the redlightdistrict is closed in order to 'clean up the neighbourhood' and coffeeshops would have been closed years ago if it wasnt for the billions of dollars they make at tourism.

Nothin liberal about the Netherlands, the economy nor the people that live there.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:13 PM   #59
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by LiveActionPro View Post
People should be taxed on gambling winnings other wise, Tons of Drug dealers are going to become professional "POKER PLAYERS" if they were smart, easy way to launder money IMO.
This is one reason why I don't see it becoming legal in the US anytime soon. also terrorism could easy launder money too,bet they are already doing it that way. it seems like an easy way to move money around.
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