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Old 02-01-2010, 05:57 AM   #1
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Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/5...s__.html?p=9,1

My translation:

AMSTERDAM - The tax office has opened the hunt for poker income. They impounded the belongings of poker professional Steven van Zadelhoff, including several computers.

The tax office demands several hundred thousand euro’s in uncollected tax over poker earnings. It also demands access to the internet poker accounts of Van Zadelhoff. The poker player and his lawyer refuse this and challenge the amount charged.

The tax office decided to move in fast to raid his rented appartment in Geldermalsen when the poker player himself mentioned he plans to move to Malta soon in a meeting with tax collectors. Malta has a favourable tax climate.

His lawyer Peter Plasman says impounding all of his clients belongings is excessive. "We were and still are in negotiation with the tax office. My client has never suggested not wanting to pay his debts. He is leaving for Malta because he needs to relax in a peaceful environment without worrying about taxes".

A lot of other players preceded Van Zadelhoff, like Marcel Luske who moved to Malta and Dutch champion Peter Dalhuijsen who lives in Czhechia. The tax office has been negotiating with poker players for a while now regarding taxes due on winnings in tournaments abroad and internet poker.

Van Zadelhoff, who plays for Everest Poker, won 100.000 euro in 2009 in a tournament on Gran Canaria. He mentions on his blog he isn't interested in playing in the Dom Classics right now, a poker tournament in Holland Casino in Utrecht, owned by the government.

The tax office replied that it doesn't comment on individual cases.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:45 AM   #2
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

What does then dutch tax law say about online winnings on euro sites/us sites?
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:57 AM   #3
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

this is bad news.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:01 AM   #4
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by jokerdal View Post
What does then dutch tax law say about online winnings on euro sites/us sites?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_...he_Netherlands
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:11 AM   #5
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by ShotCaller View Post
This does not apply. A recent law has come into effect which basically states that poker players have to pay 30% tax on their monthly profits, month per month. This measn you can't offset losing months with winning months, hich seems especially bad for tournament pros.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:32 AM   #6
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

This is why tax on gambling is stupid imo. But ofcourse you cant go through life paying no tax because that is unfair. But there must be a better way to go about it. A fair way.

Maybe if they did the tax yearly but people payed a monthly based on their forcasted earnings. And have different taxation levels. I think 30% for all is harsh. I.e. A mid staked grinder expects to make $100k a year. So he tells the tax office at the start of the tax year. He pays 25% tax. So he pays $2k a month or w/e suits him. Then at the end of the year if he makes less he gets a tax credit. If he makes more then fine atleast he does not have to pay the whole 25k or w/e at once.

That way imo you get the best of both worlds. You pay monthly so you dont need to worry about having a huge tax bill each year. But you can also offset losing months.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:18 AM   #7
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by Da33le View Post
This is why tax on gambling is stupid imo. But ofcourse you cant go through life paying no tax because that is unfair. But there must be a better way to go about it. A fair way.

Maybe if they did the tax yearly but people payed a monthly based on their forcasted earnings. And have different taxation levels. I think 30% for all is harsh. I.e. A mid staked grinder expects to make $100k a year. So he tells the tax office at the start of the tax year. He pays 25% tax. So he pays $2k a month or w/e suits him. Then at the end of the year if he makes less he gets a tax credit. If he makes more then fine atleast he does not have to pay the whole 25k or w/e at once.

That way imo you get the best of both worlds. You pay monthly so you dont need to worry about having a huge tax bill each year. But you can also offset losing months.
Imo tax should not be any part of gambling, yes tax things like normal but gambling, now that is just the government getting greedy. Come to the U.K people, you can gamble all you want up here.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:22 AM   #8
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

Ya tax on gambling should not happen because you are gambling with your hard earned money that you already payed tax on. But if gambling is your main/sole source of income. Like your job, you should pay tax on it. Well I say should. I dont think you should and where I live you dont. But if countries are gonna choose to tax it the tax should be simple and fair.

Like I think it is in sweden that you have to pay tax on every hand of poker you win? Is that right? That an example of something that is completely insane.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:48 AM   #9
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

Jesus, every day there are more countries banning/taxing online poker. I wonder how long the UK and Ireland can hold out.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:51 AM   #10
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNauta View Post
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/5...s__.html?p=9,1

The tax office decided to move in fast to raid his rented appartment in Geldermalsen when the poker player himself mentioned he plans to move to Malta soon in a meeting with tax collectors. Malta has a favourable tax climate.
Disclosure FAIL
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:06 AM   #11
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by NANONUTS View Post
Jesus, every day there are more countries banning/taxing online poker. I wonder how long the UK and Ireland can hold out.
I don't like the UK's chances. But who knows maybe the government will grow a backbone.

Last edited by Da33le; 02-01-2010 at 11:06 AM. Reason: I give it 2 years.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:08 AM   #12
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

the issue here isn't collecting tax, it is HOW the tax is being collected.

Clearly poker players SHOULD be taxed for the same reason that stock traders or heck any job where you profit at other peoples expense should be taxed. In our society a source of income is to be taxed and there is nothing special about poker that ought to exclude that for a pro.

The problem is the month to month thing, because the variance of poker means that this effectively OVER taxes people by not deducting losing months.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:09 AM   #13
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

Well done uke. You have managed to state the completely obvious .
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:12 AM   #14
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

What are the details of why moving to Malta is good?
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:22 AM   #15
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Re: Dutch government cracks down on poker pros

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Originally Posted by Da33le View Post
Well done uke. You have managed to state the completely obvious .
several people in this thread seem confused with the obvious.
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