It turns out that drugs do help you in chess tournaments and are banned. So shouldn't they be banned for poker tournaments to?

Scientists call for crackdown on doping in chess as players may be taking performance-enhancing substances

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...g-performance/

dumb

Interesting article, never thought caffeine would give you an almost 10% edge.

The exact post I was about to do once I read trade tittle. +1


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nah, **** the nanny BS

The study linked to about chess, from what I can gather without seeing the full paper, is very basically flawed in that the timecontrols chosen for play are nigh on useless for determining the real extent of 'drug help' when playing.

It's a bit like saying poker players on drugs performed better at spin and go's than those not taking drugs, but many didn't actually win because their clock ran out before calling with the nuts!

There was drug testing at the Chess Olympiad last year (one of the US players was unhappy that he had to be tested while his opponent - one of my Scottish team - didn't have to) but I didn't hear of any 'fails'.

Anyway, it definitely still hasn't been proven that any form of 'drugs' help chess players - a bigger and better study would be required at the very least.

As someone who has been prescribed modafonil and amphetamines in the past, I do perceive myself playing my A game more often when taking those, but my ADHD does get really bad at times without anything. The one big problem with Modafonil is that it makes you intensely want to **** every single girl you see all the time

Instead of the preposition to, use the adverb too or when in doubt use also.

Yes dzikijohnny, ffs, take some grammar-improvement drugs!

I'm prescribed adderall for ADD (used to be on Vyvanse but hated it). I feel it's a double edged sword... It depends what kind of mood I'm in after taking the adderall. I'm either blasting money or super focused on the game.

I just looked up Modafonil. Did your doc prescribe this at the same time as adderall or was it in lieu of adderall? It seems interesting. I have a pretty difficult time staying asleep at night because I have a little obstructive sleep apnea. It wakes me up and it's difficult to fall back asleep.

If you don't feel like going into specifics than I accept that. I just find the medication interesting... You can PM if you'd prefer not to post specifics in the forum.

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion but whatever...

I don't want to generalize the poker community but I think a good amount of reg's and rec's play poker because it's an activity where it's OK to be 100% selfish, greedy and deceptive. There's literally no expectation of you at the table other than to play your hand in turn and not to cheat.

Trying to create anti-doping, regulations or whatever you want to call it will go against the very reason a lot of people play. This is a "sport" where your level of success is measured off other people's financial demise. I don't really think there's a way to legitimize this as a "sport" that should have some regulatory body.

(P.S. I'm not describing myself when I say selfish, greedy and deceptive. I play at Commerce almost 3x per week. I'm there to have a good time and want everyone else to. I lead the conversations and will go along with whatever the mood of the table is. With that said though, I've seen some extremely despicable people there. Maybe that's why I have those general feelings of the poker community in LA)

"Sorry sir, you can't order an alcoholic beverage while playing poker."

"Can you believe he blew over a 0.08%? Floor!, Floooooor!!.... This man is drunk, pick his chips up. What a disgrace to the sport"


Setup, please.

Dumb af

I knew Scotty Nguyen won that HORSE championship unfairly....

In lieu of. Felt less risk of over emotion like can happen with Adderal as you describe. A bit intense, but absolutely works to keep you awake no matter what. Really studied more for sleep issues but definitely has ADD effects. The side effects on sex drive are often overwhelming, way too horny often.

Hmm. When i posted I expected more people saying they were going to try taking the drugs during tournaments. By the number of people saying the ban would be bad you have acknowledged the drugs would work.

I think banning 'lucky' card protectors would be bad, but that's not the same as saying that they work.

I'm assuming main threat here are amphetamines, but I don't think they would work in poker the same way they work in chess. The key element of overall poker skillset is executing your frequencies in the optimal way. However, aphetamines change your brain chemistry in a way that could mess with that process - for examples, because of feeling euphoric (large doses of amphetamines will do that), you would choose agressive action over passive one way too often in the similar spot.

In chess there are no frequencies, but only one optimal move, which is why stimulants might actually be helpful.

as if poker wasn't getting boring enough

get a shot clock in tournaments if you want to make a real change

Speaking purely on behalf of myself as an individual, I don't think this needs to be a "one-size-fits-all" situation. There could be premier events which are prestigious and highly regarded which could introduce drug testing, without affecting low-end weekly low stakes tournaments where players are welcome to play and drink (for example).

If we as a community want to present poker as a mind sport, featuring highly skiled competitors who represent the peak of human intellect, courage, logic and mathematics, requiring them to clear a drug test is not a very high hurdle.

It is, however, probably going to be difficult to justify this when the competitors are also the customers: does a business have a right to demand a drug test of their customers? Probably not. Does a (mind) sporting host have a right to demand a drug test of their competitors? Probably yes.

It would be impressive to see a live (or, for that matter, online) poker operator who wanted to demonstrate that they're running a clean intellectual contest to impose rules of this nature, just as analogous sports do.

Professionals in most (all?) sports have to ensure drug testing. The only reason that poker is different is the idea of customer v contestant that I mentioned above.

Drug testing is cost prohibitive, a pretty serious breach of civil liberties and generally a stupid idea since I don't think anybody's complaining that their opponents play better on average on drugs (and i dont even take any drugs personally). It's a stupid idea, entirely unnecessary and would be a nightmare to enforce - not only that but what exactly do you test for, adderall? recreational drugs? if so do amphetamines count? he about cocaine? I mean the whole idea is absurd.

I hope this is just a ****post, and doesn't reflect your true thoughts, because that logic is seriously flawed.

I'm with you on most of this, but how would it be a serious breach of civil liberties? That seems like a silly statement to me, and I'm willing to consider your opinion on the matter if you care to elaborate, but I think you got a little carried away in your rant.

"Hey I'd like to buy into the tournament"
"Ok sir, that will be $500. I'm going to need your player's card and can you also pee into this cup?"

The bit in bold simply isn't true for the majority of positions reached in chess. There are usually many different ways to approach a position, many moves of similar 'value' and I can't think of any reason amphetamines would improve the 'move/plan/strategy selection' process during a game.

I can see the downside in poker quite clearly, while in chess it's not so clear that it would be necessarily detrimental - but it's highly unlikely to be beneficial.

Would like to hear from any strong chess/poker players who've played competitively while under the influence of various drugs though! Might be illuminating and/or amusing!