*I don't know this is in the wrong category, so let me know if I have to move it, thanks.

So I've been a pro for 7 years, and people don't want to rent out to a poker player (doesn't matter how much you've won or how consistently). So any ideas on what to say I do for a living (I play online only, so I'd be home a lot).

Stuff to consider, income verification (I actually withdraw in bitcoin, so I sell that for USD - people don't want to rent out to people in cryptocurrency anyway nearly as often!) - but there is anonymity (thus wiggle room) when saying what I do.

Tell them you trade equities, consult, do freaky things on web cam for $, a medium who talks to ghost, pretty big on the bowling circuit.... just don't get where you have to answer too many questions. Pay 6 months up front.

Incomes, savings, rent (bank or/and getting recommendations). Filing taxes.

pay a year in advance

Where are you trying to rent, Utah, Vatican City, .... ?

(Where have you lived for your 7 year pro career that you are new to getting housing ? Come out to Nevada,you might be pleasantly surprised at the contrast.)

A landlord who sees a bank statement and 6 mos rent from you will rent an apartment. Put down "self employed trader/investor" and have advance rent in hand.

OTOH, you can make it extra hard on yourself by sticking out your lower lip and complaining about discrimination against poker players.

Back when my credit score wasn't great, I floated this idea to several landlords and was told that it generally doesn't work that way. Something about getting handcuffed to tenants because that makes it harder to evict them.


If you had any of those other jobs, you could simply run it through a business entity (like an S-corp) and prove your income in a legit looking way without the awkward explanations. Unfortunately, my understanding is that you can't do that with gambling income.

But Gzech is right, you don't really need to explain yourself. Just saying you're self-employed with some bank statements should be enough for most landlords/agencies. That's been the case for the last 3 houses I've rented. Maybe your mileage will vary by region.

Ive never had a problem paying a years rent in advance. Most real estate owners would welcome this, because then thats more cash they have to potentially buy more properties.

It would help to know where OP is trying to get an apartment and whether they have been dealing with individual owners or corporate complexes. The small complex or house owned by someone living locally is usually the best bet in any sort of a situation where explanations of any type might be necessary (I see this more frequently with my clients who are recently released from prison).

With respect to proving up income, bank statements and copies of tax filings usually go a long ways towards showing legitimacy of the claim of sufficient funds...

If the landlord has a mortgage on the property, the documents they signed with the mortgagee probably doesn't allow it.

If the landlord doesn't pay the mortgagee the mortgage payments or otherwise defaults, then one of the mortgagee's remedies typically is to start collecting the rents directly.

If the tenant paid the landlord rent in month 0 for months 1 - 6 and then landlord defaults on the mortgage in month 2, there are no rents for mortgagee to collect from tenant through month 6 because the landlord already took that money. So somewhere (if not in multiple places) in all of the documents that a bank would prepare for the landlord to sign when getting a mortgage there is generally a provision that rents will not be collected in advance. Collecting the rents in advance would be a default and, in addition to other remedies, would allow the mortgagee the option to accelerate the entire amount owed.

New mortgagees may also ask for Tenant Estoppel Certificates to be signed by the tenants and one of the provisions in that is usually the tenant certifying that it hasn't prepaid any rent.


I'm more familiar with a situation where the landlord is renting property for commercial uses as opposed to residential but I think it is pretty much the same.



Smaller apartment buildings or someone who just owns a house and is renting it out may just take the advance rent.

Living off savings seems the best way to do it. With proof in the form of bank statements.

Of course, you won't ever be able to buy a house as a poker pro, unless you have all the cash upfront. A bank won't lend you a mortgage for that.

There's a huge number of downsides to being a poker pro and not a lot of upsides, unless you're making significant money as a pro (6 figures plus) or have another stable income on the side (sponsorship, business etc.).

If you have been renting for 7 yrs, then you surely have a great rental history. This, good credit, and a larger than avg security deposit would likely get you approved.

use your tax returns to show proof of income from poker.

I find it interesting that a poker pro who can put down 6-12 months of rent and show a bank account that is pretty flush has more trouble renting than a person who is living paycheck to paycheck that has around average credit.

Like this. Poker Pro has $20-30K in cash in the bank. Average joe has $3K in the bank and owes $5K in credit cards, but has a job paying $40-50K a year.

I totally understand that the poker pro's cash could vanish in a matter of a month.

I just find it interesting.

When I first moved out of home and looked into renting I also had trouble finding a private owner or real estate that would take me on when my income was primarily from poker at the time. As other posters mentioned the way I got around it was to offer 3-6 months rent + bonds etc. up front in lieu of not having a good regular savings pattern on my bank statements.

depends what you have in the bank, if you've been filing taxes and/or if you can pay them in advance.

i've never had a problem showing bank statements and paying 3-6 months up front.

if you only have 5-10 k to your name and no job then it is probably a different story.

"doesn't matter how much you have", ofc it does lmao.

If you have 10k vs 500k its not the same thing. Also seems pretty likely you don't file taxes as the more main reason you're having trouble

Buy a place rather than rent. It is often easier to qualify for a purchase than a rental.

This

That's assuming he has the funds to buy a house upfront. Houses aren't cheap you know. It's not like everyone has a spare $200k lying around to buy a house (no chance he gets a mortgage as a professional gambler).

Also, I was told that most poker pros have less money than we think. Many of the people we think are so-called "crushers" are actually in huge makeup/debt/close to being broke, so don't have anywhere near enough to buy a house.

If you were to keep your money in a bank and were a good customer you could see if you can secure a standby or irrevocable letter of credit secured by funds that your bank can control in the landlords favor that allows the landlord to collect on the 5th of the month if you haven't paid rent. No prepaid rent, landlord is guaranteed he will be paid.

If you don't have tax returns or other documents that prove income well then you need to see if a hard money lender will do a LOC.

Or pay someone with excellent credit to cosign the lease and prepay them and let them pay the rent.

Its a risk reward calculation and unless the landlord will take 100% prepayment you need to figure out how to reduce their risk buy buying it down