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Re: Diamond Flush Article: The Distortion of Truth from the Lederer Files
DF is a badass. Shes our Ben Swann and is about to dish out a healthy reality check to Howie.
something tells me he would have been better off doing the interview. cant wait to read all of this. |
Re: Diamond Flush Article: The Distortion of Truth from the Lederer Files
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Please list these 100 million dollar plus companies without independently audited financials. Now show me ones where the ownership consists of non related disparate shareholders. It is very chicken and egg when they chose to use player funds to grow the company they no longer needed audited financials because they did not need loans or new investors, which they could not get without the financials which would expose the plundering of funds. External audits are a key part of protecting the financial health of a business through checks and balances. If they had regular external audits like normal people this would never have happened. It is that simple. What is funny is people get put off by Howard saying he was not required to get an independent audit but nobody asked him why he actually chose not to do it. |
Re: Diamond Flush Article: The Distortion of Truth from the Lederer Files
There were a few quotes she listed that I really didnt understand how they played into the "argument" she was making.
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I dunno, I mean I think Howard ****ed up big time and that there is plenty he isnt telling us, but this first installment seems like she is really grasping for straws. I dont want people to think Im a Howard defender, because I dont think the poker community should just let those guys [including Ivey] show up to tournaments without getting some serious questions asked, but honestly, read the things she is quoting and ask yourself if her conclusions are correct. Unless I am severely misinterpreting these quotes, they support Howard and not DF. Hopefully the next installments will be more thorough and less ambiguous in regards to DF's implications. |
Re: Diamond Flush Article: The Distortion of Truth from the Lederer Files
anyone who is capable of reading this ridic tl;dr thing pls post good cliffnotes tnx
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Re: Diamond Flush Article: The Distortion of Truth from the Lederer Files
In order to make an accurate presentation regarding the operation of FTP, a journalist needs to employ a person with substantial experience in the actual operation of similar organizations. This means using a CPA, MBA or lawyer with years of exposure to business organizations.
Quoting verse and word of the operating agreement and comparing that to actions of some persons is uninformative. Every LLC has an Operating Agreement and in virtually every case begins to violate the LLC from the first day of actual operation. Courts recognize this practical problem and, usually, will not hold managers or members liable for such violations if they were known to most other members and no one objected. Most LLC's, with just a few members, are operated fairly informally and on a friendly basis. Anyone who questions an action and receives a blunt response quoting the Operating Agreement as a reason for a less friendly response should be very concerned. The real substance of what went wrong won't be found in nit picking the Operating Agreement to look for violations by the managers. Enough people (probably members and employees) with knowledge need to be interviewed by someone prepped by a business specialist and those interviews integrated into a chronological history. If done properly, that chronological history will make clear what went wrong, who was responsible for it and why controls were not in place to prevent it. In response to some above discussion regarding independent audit controls. My experience is that any business organization of this size without independent audit controls will be stolen from, most likely by its employees or officers, but certainly by someone. |
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Cliffs: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.c...e_along_sm.jpg |
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ty
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Re: Diamond Flush Article: The Distortion of Truth from the Lederer Files
Gioco: You are making a good point in your whole comment, but it seems to me that DF article was more focused on comparing HL answers in his ITW to some factual reference rather than to fully establish his responsability from a legal standpoint. I think it was enough to underly some obvious contradiction between HL answers and reality and can not be called uninformative (for me at least).
markksman: Keep posting, it's so anoying to see that many ppl buying HL version. DF: Thank you. |
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I have to admit that it is mostly to satisfy my curiosity, but i think that it has it's place in this thread as it would help 2p2ers not familiar with the business world to understand how ridiculous this absence of audit is in the FTP case. |
Re: Diamond Flush Article: The Distortion of Truth from the Lederer Files
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq-poN6sLF8
alternative to clicking on the link: search for "How to Catch a Liar (Assuming We Want To)" in youtube |
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Source: 7 years experience in forensic accounting/financial fraud investigation |
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And just because something is not unusual doesn't make it right. It's not unusual for people to have a drink or two with dinner, not realize how impaired they are and get behind a wheel. If they get into an accident or pulled over they'll get a DUI. |
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So far I missed where HL distorted the truth. These audits should have been in place, but that was not in the companies culture. Eventhough there were fractions most owners were also personal friends. Audits would have been a delicate issue. But that will be in one of the next articles no doubt. |
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As repetitively stated by some posters with real world business experience, the only reason they didnt have independent auditing is they had something to hide. |
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At some point at least Ray must have felt like he had to. If the culture had been different he would never have gotten that chance. |
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Re: Diamond Flush Article: The Distortion of Truth from the Lederer Files
a lot of standard business practices that could go wrong. equity and range...
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I'm sure her opinion comes from more than the tapes. But, I'm sure you are an expert on D F also. Since you have answered a question or two about 'what' the new FTP is going to do you are also an expert on them also. You are also an expert on what the DOJ is going to do. Personally I hope you are correct regarding the DOJ but until you offer a 'source' your opinions will be taken with a grain of salt. |
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I remember seeing some accounts from 2010 and there was no qualification in the audit report. Therefore the auditors must've been happy there was the cash in hand. |
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It's fairly easy to tell Lederer was lying at some points. There were contradictions within his own interviews as well as discrepancies between other things we've heard and inconsistencies between generally accepted and observed practices. A lot has already been written on the subject. My favorite were Bill Rini's first two posts on the Poker News interview. He also recently posted his thoughts on the PokerCast interview here http://www.billrini.com/2012/10/01/h...2p2-pokercast/ DF is late to the game on this one. While she may have some more inside information and people on here will trust she's not making up the source material she has, it would have more weight if it was coming directly from named sources. So while DF's post will have value it might not be that much at this point. I was wondering if Lederer had planned to cancel the DF interview from the start for a couple of different reasons. I'm adding "to keep her quiet during the peak of the buzz" to the list. |
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Pokernews guy and pokercast team had nowhere near the amount of properly sourced information and work that DF had put in... it is ridiculous to compare. Quote:
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