de Wolfe vs random EuroDonk @ EPT Barcelona - Page 11 - Poker News

plexiq · 09-09-2009, 08:31 AM

Only angleshoot in this hand is RDW trying to claim the pot after he clearly mucked.

He chose to muck instead of showing the second card, so he cant claim the pot now. I am sure he is perfectly aware of this when he tries to claim the pot after the Q-high is shown.

Its ridiculously annoying when people get called and try hard to make the other player show first. Rules state you have to show first, so just show your hand or muck it ffs.

kokiri · 09-09-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

Also, live poker is really, really dumb if this ruling was correct. It just doesn't make sense to ship the pot to what you know was the worst hand, just because it breaks some rule, without affecting how the hand was played out whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonified

If karma applies here, it took care of Roland. If he just tables his hand, he wins the pot, next case. Because he didn't, for whatever reason, he opened the door for his opponent to angle him. Happens quite often in fact ; if Player A just gets on with the game without ****ing about, Player B has no opportunity to angle.

Meh, i agree with both of these bits. I can see how it can quite annoying if people muck when they're supposed to show their bluff, especially if it's true that:

Quote:

You must show your hand on showdown in a tournament to win the pot, even if you're the only person left with a live hand by most tournament rules.

And R DW clearly made a rod for his own back, but whenever the game moves away from making hands, betting them and seeing who has the best 5 card hand when nobody folds, it sucks. I do kinda wonder if more people should obey a "Do I think Barry G would do this?" rule when considering some action in poker.

If you fastforward to the end of the video, RdW gets interviewed and appears quite relaxed about the whole shebang. Storm in a teacup iyam.

jj179 · 09-09-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetzenplayer

Hello, I'm the "random EuroDonk" (thx alot for the nice description btw).

Just to give a short explanation of the hand: I had good reasons to believe that de Wolfe was bluffing here a decenct amount of the time and that he would just openmuck his hand in this case even if his bluff beats my hand (like lots of live players do when they have been caught bluffing).

Just to clarify: I did not say at any point that my hand beats Khi and also never insulted Roland or something (I actually think he's a pretty nice guy and we talked about this hand very friendly just 15 minutes later). I only told him to show his second card or I will not show.

They often say there's a fine line between genius and insanity, I honestly can't tell on which which side this reasoning falls. Calling in the hopes the other guy open mucks seems optimistic - although I don't play live I confess - but then trying to insist he shows both cards, effectively attempting to force him to win the pot...

Superb use of reverse psychology, or symptoms of masochistic tendencies?

Wow is all I can say!

inn_Nstruct · 09-09-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnfieldRoad

German guy acted like a ****, and I hope he ****s blood for a week.

Also, live poker is really, really dumb if this ruling was correct. It just doesn't make sense to ship the pot to what you know was the worst hand, just because it breaks some rule, without affecting how the hand was played out whatsoever.

doesnt make sense. the pot doesnt get shipped to the best hand if it folds to a worse hand either. so, a self intented muck like RDW did is comparable to a fold, just in an enhanced state of the game.

Onsberg · 09-09-2009, 10:43 AM

Finally the bluff-call works!!

Vexed? · 09-09-2009, 10:56 AM

IrunDET · 09-09-2009, 11:01 AM

after watching the video again, the dealer really dicked this up also. As soon as his cards, whether they are in rolands hand still or not, touched that muck, the hand is dead. He should have just mucked it and awarded the pot to tobias after he shows down his hand. There was no reason the dealer should have turned over his king high after roland placed his hand in the muck.

OodaThunkett · 09-09-2009, 11:11 AM

I posted way back in the thread saying that while I admitted I wasn't a live player, I was surprised if this wasn't an angle shoot by Reinkemeier. Although I obviously knew a player had to show his cards if called, I was treating it as something separate. My view was kind of that Reinkemeier should muck but insist on seeing the other card.

Fwiw, I now accept that this is badly wrong.

wikipedia:

Quote:

To win any part of a pot if more than one player has a hand, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.

Exactly what pretty much everybody has been saying, in fact. Very interesting thread though, imo.

styx2000 · 09-09-2009, 11:24 AM

people who dont play live and/or dont know live rules should'nt argue so much in this thread. there are certain rules live, they usually have valid reasons and they should be followed.

The german guy did nothing wrong by asking rdw to show first like the rules dictate. He didnt indicate he had him beat.

correct floor ruling after hand was mucked.

he apologized for his slightly douchey behavior which is understandable due to the tension.

tommy angelo is probably the only one who would sit there quietly until rdw mucks and then muck quietly after getting the pot shipped while maintaining his pulse at 65.

OodaThunkett · 09-09-2009, 11:53 AM

Onsberg · 09-09-2009, 11:57 AM

The thing here is that the german knows he is beat when De Wolfe announces and shows the king. What was a legitimate wait for De Wolfe to turn over both cards now becomes an angle shoot as the only way he can win is if De Wolfe throws his hand in the muck before showing the last card. De Wolfe would have been forced to show the hidden card anyway if the german mucked his hand at this stage. By that reasoning not mucking the hand can only be because he is inducing De Wolfe to fold.

adi · 09-09-2009, 12:10 PM

if your bluff gets called show your cards and stop ****ing around, he deserved all of it and more. very good job, ''random euro''.

ezdonkey · 09-09-2009, 12:14 PM

This is one of the most entertaining hands I've seen in poker.

+1 for the above.
German kid deserves the pot 110% rightfully for being even smart enough to think out this scenario and be baller enough execute it after Roland flashes K-high.

WP & hats off. Love it.

KrustyTheClown · 09-09-2009, 12:32 PM

Pretty strange hand. I think it's kind of an angle too from the euro-donk. The fistpump is really outragious imo. If im De Wolfe I'd get so ****ing pissed I'd might kick the donk in the face. But then again De Wolfe could have been little bit more carefull too.

Alex-db · 09-09-2009, 12:34 PM

This is the moment when RDW ardently makes it clear to everyone at the table that he wants his hand to be considered killed.

This ruling couldn't be any more clearly correct.

The only angle-shooting here is by Roland when he tried to win a pot with a hand that he has clearly already mucked. Even karma is on the other guy's side since RDW was messing about not opening his hand.