AMAZING

Just to clear this up, I am indeed from London but the guy in the video is most definitely not me, no idea what this about!

FWIW I've been playing poker a long time, pretty easy to find out who I am and am 4*Stars SNE, these days I play exclusively Zoom PLO.

Cheers.

Very good.

May? Of course it's a ******* scam.

That's just where the factory of Facebook Likers are based.

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Same set up as PokerbyProxy.

This was an investment thread for PokerbyProxy on some forum board:

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Poker...o-t455503.html

which was (of course) found out to be a scam.

Here's the same thread on the same forum for Poker Automatic:

http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Poker...a-t476785.html

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I kinda doubt there is even any bots running, just a typical ponzi scheme where the older investors are paid out using new investors moneys. If you think about it, 700+ bots means 700+ accounts (and 700+ computers?). Accounts that require documentation and a way to move the profits offline. It would be dumb for them to funnel the money to just a few accounts because then the accounts then become linked. Any time a bot is discovered, the other accounts that are linked through a series of deposits/transfers are exposed.

ive played over 1 million hands and am a regular at midstakes and have yet to encounter a bot.

for a bot to be successful, it would need someone who actually understands poker to keep adjusting it, GTO bots do not exist, period. I would be pretty happy if a bunch of people purchased a bot and left it to play its strategy in my games, given that it wont ever adjust and the person who is running it probably cant beat nl2, it would basically be an endless supply of free money.

This topic has nothing to do with bots, other than the scam site pretending to use them.

There are no bots. There are no players. There is no investment plan.

The scammers make up fake daily profits, with the odd small losing day thrown in to make it all seem more legitimate. Players can't withdraw these "profits." Rather they sit they in an imaginary account. One day shortly they will announce a loss of 90%+ of everyone's money due to being hacked, or PayPal stealing their money, or -most likely- the sites confiscating funds due to bot use. They will then close up shop and disappear with the money of anyone foolish enough to have given them money.

There's this old saying that goes something like, "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is."

Also know as "The Full Tilt business model".

Winning bots have been found at the midstakes on almost every network now except Stars.

no idea who you are but you irreversibly damage your credibility when you make a claim that you can't possibly know to be accurate

"bots" may not be playing effectively for their owners *yet* but will only be matter of time before they do (once you understand nature of information technology progresses at exponential pace you'll see this will happen sooner than your natural linear intuition leads you to expect)

even before this happens, already humans are learning from computer similations, GTO calcs, decision tree software, etc

while all still imperfect for now, they also don't need to reach perfection to effectively end the game permanently as we have known it

Q: What is the difference between a human using the same logic to make the same decision a "bot" would make if the bot were itself playing?

A: not much, some tilt control and few other things that don't make nearly enough difference between bot play and computer aided human play

im aware, i said i have yet to encounter them, which means they are rare.

i agree im probably not 100% accurate, all imo.

firstly what i was trying to get at, is if there was some sort of bot that was for sale for the mass, it wouldnt be very good, hence easy money for regs.

secondly most bots that do very well are based on exploiting specific player pool tendencies, usually created by poker players who have a good knowledge of poker and said player pool.

even if someone actually spent the time to create this super mega GTO "unexploitable" bot you speak of, it would need their opponents to be also playing gto, otherwise it would be leaking money, there is no point in reaching 1-a in every single spot if your opponent is a meganit. which takes me to my previous point of the bot needing to keep readjusting, which means theres no way in hell someone who cant beat midstakes already can just purchase a bot and print in said games.

if someone created a bot that could adjust ingame based on huds, then that would be a problem. by the time someone does create this though, online games will either be thriving thanks to global regulation or pretty much dead due to too many taxes/segregated player pools and not enough recs depositing and since the latter is a much likely scenario, whoever wasted their time would of been better off in a different market.

I don't really get why you are saying a GTO bot would need to be playing against people playing GTO or it would be leaking money, and that it would need to keep adjusting, etc...

If there was a super unexploitble GTO bot, then the only way it wouldn't win money is if it was playing against others that were playing GTO (it wouldn't need/want others to play GTO). If others were to deviate from GTO, they would be playing exploitably, which would result in the GTO bot profiting off others mistakes in frequencies. There' no need for a GTO bot to adjust, it just makes money off others diverging from GTO themselves.

A super unexploitable GTO bot wouldn't be leaking money. You can say that it wouldn't maximize winnings by maximally exploiting players mistakes, but it wouldn't be leaking money, and would still win.

encounter or knowingly encounter?

yeah i shouldnt of used the word leaking, my bad.

i dont exactly want to get into the debate of GTO and what not because im not an expert on it and cant back up anything i say. im just saying id have a pretty simple exploitative strategy vs it, if i did ever bump into one

fair point, almost all villians i verse have human characteristics though, but im aware that can also be built into bots. sure i may be a tad delusional into thinking i havent encountered one, but my main point is that, any mass marketed bot is going to be rubbish

all these threads do is scare recs into thinking online poker is full of bots/cheaters when in reality its really not that common.

I assume you mean don't play against it?

I'm not sure how you could have a profitable exploitive strategy vs. a super unexploitable GTO bot. Pretty much by definition, you can't exploit it.

If We're playing a game of rock paper scissors, and I'm playing GTO throwing each option 1/3 of the time randomly, what's your plan to exploit me? No matter what you do you can't win in terms of EV. You start throwing rock more, which beats some more of my 'scissors', but also equally losing to my 'paper'.

I will take 200%, please!

that killed me!

I am glad you are a winning player.

However, there are winning bots that collectively have won many millions of dollars. I know this as a fact.

Bots do not have to play GTO or even adjust their play to specific opponents to win, they just have to have an overall edge, including rakeback.

Btw- there is a casino heads-up limit bot that beats most pros that is not GTO.

Mid-stakes, no limit, non-short stack, multi-player, is not yet easy for bots... but you may have played one and simply not known it.

Regarding the bot-investment opportunity being discussed in this thread: IT IS AN OBVIOUS SCAM.

Oh man.. the AJFenix video had me dying..

I'm also a +1 for buying a gig calling the same website a scam.

yes ofc i wont be trying to sit it


right i understand what your saying, doesnt exactly work in practise though, more so in NL holdem, given that it would be defending based on betsizes/potodds theres just going to be spots that come up where its going to make -ev calls vs exploitable sizes/ranges to make sure its unexploitable and defending enough.

just for anyone else who might want to take a stab, im not saying the bot would be easy to beat, would do stuff on earlier streets that i wouldnt even understand and would likely take some betting tokens from me but those tokens + more would be made back when i go bat**** crazy with only the nuts and its going to have defend everytime to stay unexploitable.


i mentioned in earlier posts that there is no such thing as a GTO bot, all successful ones are playing a strategy based on the player pool.

there are very very few bots that have made "millions" sites are better at cracking down on it, also games were much easier back the days, so bots could play a very basic strategy and probably print, given that it never tilts youd gain another bb or 2 in edge.

im also aware that there is hu limit gto bots, limit is a very different animal to no limit. also HU is a very different animal to ring.

dont forget the midstakes bots have sick neural nets with all the hands you've ever played and timing/sizing tells on you and they are most likely programmed by some of the best programmers in the world as they are making millions every year. The bot i have most hands on my site wins at 8bb/100 at 6max 100nl. that's 13bb/100~ if you change the rake to stars rake. And it does not table select so it plays mostly vs regs only tables. You could ask internet how many bb/100 the bots on microgaming had. Im sure its over 4bb(so 6.5+ on stars rake). Get whofrut and you wont find many guys beating even nl100 for that winrate at 6max.


But then again it takes a stars reg to refuse to believe that most of the biggest winners in today's non-stars games are bots. Just like it takes a star reg to completely go ape**** in every rake thread when they have 50% less rake than most sites and 80% less than a few.

stars regs are the new sheltered suburban mom and bots are ghey

Don't think you understand GTO. If you fold so much that you only get to some spots with the nuts, the GTO bot would play incorrectly against your range but not to the point where you have an edge. The amount it would give back in spots where you have the nuts won't make up for all the EV you gave up by over folding. Also, a GTO bot doesn't necessarily defend 1-alpha in every possible spot, that formula is just a guideline.