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View Poll Results: Who is telling the truth, Clonie or FTP ?
Clonie Gowen 203 63.84%
Full Tilt Poker 115 36.16%
Voters: 318. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-15-2008, 10:11 AM   #76
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by bigdonk View Post
How do you estimate the wort of a company that is seemingly in complete private ownership? In school i have learned that it is worth the sum of discounted future earnings. A rule of thumb is that you simply add the estimate the earnings of the next 5 years (since the company has a high risk of going out of business within the next decade you can apply this rule of thumb here). So FTP earns 800 million a year (netto). Realistic?
As you said the discounted earnings is one method.

Probably the most popular method though is the price to earnings method. You use the earnings that the company makes per year (post-tax profit) and multiply it by the price : earnings ratio (P/E) of the shares. In the case of a private company, there is no (P/E) ratio given. Therefore, you use the P/E ratio of a company in a comparable industry. In this case, you could take the P/E ratio of PartGaming which is 23 (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=prty.l) This is incredibly high compared to most industries, for example Tate & Lyle has a P/E ratio of 10 (valued at 10 x earnings), and so likely reflects the growth potential predicted in the industry / other reasons.

You should then make some adjustments to the P/E ratio, to take into account for any differences. For example, it would be harder for an owner of FTP shares to transfer them as they're not publicly listed etc. This would likely decrease the P/E ratio by ~ 20%, so you'd probably use a P/E ratio of ~ 18.4. The earnings can be be obtained from the accounts. So if FTP had earnings of $50m last year (this is a complete guess i don't know) then it may be valued at ~ $920m (18.4 x $50m).

The earnings figure used should be future maintainable earnings however, and so FTP would likely argue that future maintainable earnings will be much lower due to impending UIGEA implementation etc, to lower the valuation of the company in the case.

Valuing FPT at $4bn seems ridiculously high and would suggest that you believe that they have maintainable earnings (post-tax profit) of ~$220m. However, in suing FTP she's obviously going to over-value the company to try and increase her claim of her 'stake'.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:18 AM   #77
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Self Made View Post
- She doesn't have a written contract for that 1%. She claims no one else does either. I don't find that to be credible: who, other than Clonie, does a deal that important without a written contract?
You've got to be kidding. How would this happen?
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:25 AM   #78
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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You've got to be kidding. How would this happen?
Stupidity. But I've helped untangle stupid people out of similar messes. You wouldn't believe how dumb otherwise intelligent (i know that may be stretching it here) people are when it comes to forming business relationships. I'm sure the world will never know what happens to this though, most likely settlement with confidentiality clause.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:25 AM   #79
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

yay we finally have a telephone number for FTP
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:25 AM   #80
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

I think if I had an agreement with someone where the other person's end of the agreement was that they had to give me something worth $40 million, I'd probably want to have something in writing.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:29 AM   #81
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Ballistik View Post
how can these US citizens get away with "Owning" an online poker room when others are banned
This.

Perhaps that is why there are no paper contracts for "ownership" stakes.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:41 AM   #82
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by Self Made View Post
- She doesn't have a written contract for that 1%.

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Old 11-15-2008, 10:43 AM   #83
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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You've had an account since Oct 06 and this was your first post?
don't have much to say, guess i'll cu in 2010
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:48 AM   #84
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

Wow i did not see a freeway girl making those kind of money, guess i underestimated the market.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:52 AM   #85
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

CG must have become a freak and a very weird chick...
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:55 AM   #86
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

If this is for real, anyone who wants to keep playing online poker, UIEGA or not, better hope the Tilt folks settle this with a strict confidentiality provision. Yesterday. If they don't settle, Clonie can depose the whole lot of 'em. They would have to testify under oath about the corporate structure and its finances. If you think the 2+2 community would have a collective orgasm reading about these details, imagine how your local congressman would react. Recent developments regarding the enforeceability of the UIEGA aside, this could be a true death knell for online poker in the US, at least for the foreseeable future. Barry-O is not gonna come to the rescue here. I know there's much hate for FTP around here, with their support problems and opaque corporate structure, but believe me, you want it to stay that way.

I've read these forums for a while and never has something jolted me enough to post. This could be very interesting, but also very, very bad...
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:59 AM   #87
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by plsPayMyBillz View Post
phil gordon , wtf is PG a ftp pro... I've never seen him do anything good...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchmaker View Post
Isn't he a computer programmer?
He runs an Enterprise car rental franchise, if I am remembering correctly...
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:01 AM   #88
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

Quote:
- She doesn't have a written contract for that 1%. She claims no one else does either. I don't find that to be credible: who, other than Clonie, does a deal that important without a written contract?
I dont know about US contract law, but i can tell you for a fact under UK Contract law any agreement met by 2 parties verbally is legally binding by law so long as each party has grounds to have understood the terms and conditions fully.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:01 AM   #89
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by NittanyDawg View Post
If this is for real, anyone who wants to keep playing online poker, UIEGA or not, better hope the Tilt folks settle this with a strict confidentiality provision. Yesterday. If they don't settle, Clonie can depose the whole lot of 'em. They would have to testify under oath about the corporate structure and its finances. If you think the 2+2 community would have a collective orgasm reading about these details, imagine how your local congressman would react. Recent developments regarding the enforeceability of the UIEGA aside, this could be a true death knell for online poker in the US, at least for the foreseeable future. Barry-O is not gonna come to the rescue here. I know there's much hate for FTP around here, with their support problems and opaque corporate structure, but believe me, you want it to stay that way.

I've read these forums for a while and never has something jolted me enough to post. This could be very interesting, but also very, very bad...

That is very true, but this is NVG lets bash Clonie now!
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:03 AM   #90
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt

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Originally Posted by King Spew View Post
He runs an Enterprise car rental franchise, if I am remembering correctly...
You're not.
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