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| News, Views, and Gossip For poker news, views, and gossip |
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View Poll Results: Who is telling the truth, Clonie or FTP ?
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Clonie Gowen
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203 |
63.84% |
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Full Tilt Poker
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115 |
36.16% |
11-15-2008, 08:25 AM
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#61
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banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Miami/Las vegas
Posts: 340
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
This will never make a trial. They will settle this quickly.....
Howard will avoid having any of the partners give a deposition. The iRS and the Justice Department will be watching very closely if depositions are taken!
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11-15-2008, 08:32 AM
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#62
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journeyman
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 381
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riveredya
As a matter of contract law, it seems she has a lot to prove. Not only does she have to prove that she didn't get what she was entitled to, but the value of the company. This doesn't take into account the fine print, which probably includes some provisions for default. I would bet they countersue....
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You're joking right? If there is some truth to her allegations, this would be a pretty open and shut case. Not that difficult to establish that you didn't receive a promised 1% stake in the company and that you didn't receive a distribution if you didn't receive a 1% stake in the company and you didn't receive a distribution . I'm assuming there is a document SOMEWHERE (probably many) that documents her promised stake in the company. They'd hire an accountant to establish damages.
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11-15-2008, 08:39 AM
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#63
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banned
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Doomsday Vision
Posts: 2,172
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchmaker
FTP estimated Net Worh: 4,000,000,000
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Party Gayming is worth about $700 million.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=prty.l
FTP has 2.17 times PRTY traffic.
http://www.pokerscout.com/
SO FTP is not worth much more than $1.5 billion...
Let's say max $2.0 billion if gaining market share...
Because the margins should be similar.
That's the way you do it...
Money for nothing...
And the chicks for free.
So 1% of FTP is worth $15-20 million...
But if you're gonna sue...
Why not round it up to $40 million?
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11-15-2008, 08:48 AM
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#64
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Lounge Laureate
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 9,704
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jihad
You've had an account since Oct 06 and this was your first post?
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How the hell do you guys do it? I would never notice that.
That said, it does seem mighty odd to lurk for 700 days and then post so weakly.
Lives of quiet desperation.
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11-15-2008, 08:53 AM
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#65
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grinder
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fire Safety
Posts: 509
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedManPlus
Party Gayming is worth about $700 million.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=prty.l
FTP has 2.17 times PRTY traffic.
http://www.pokerscout.com/
SO FTP is not worth much more than $1.5 billion...
Let's say max $2.0 billion if gaining market share...
Because the margins should be similar.
That's the way you do it...
Money for nothing...
And the chicks for free.
So 1% of FTP is worth $15-20 million...
But if you're gonna sue...
Why not round it up to $40 million?
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solid logic.
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11-15-2008, 09:09 AM
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#66
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bobby's Room
Posts: 2,948
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Having read the complaint, my thoughts:
- They claim the 4 majority shareholders at founding were Bitar, Bloch, Lederer, and Ferguson. Ivey and Gordon joined soon after.
- They don't know the corporate structure. They talk about 4 companies: FTP, Tiltware, Kolyma, and Pocket Kings, but there's just speculation on how they are related.
- The complaint has some obvious errors, e.g. claiming that recent additions to Team Full Tilt have been there all along.
- She claims to have been promised 1% each in FTP and Tiltware.
- She claims the she should have an interest in Pocket Kings and Kolyma as well, either because they're subsidiaries or because she was unfairly denied the opportunity to invest. A claimed interest in Pocket Kings and Kolyma seems to be one of the two core issues here.
- She makes some claims that they froze her out, didn't give her information about the company, and perhaps violated the rights of minority shareholders (her).
- Distributions to members of Team Full Tilt started in May 2007, except to her.
- On November 6, 2007, Howard offered her $250K for her past promotion of FTP. She rejected it.
- She's been promoting FTP until recently without any compensation, just on the promise of 1% of FTP and Tiltware.
- November 11, 2008 she was informed that they'd be releasing a press release saying she was no longer a member of Team Full Tilt.
- She doesn't have a written contract for that 1%. She claims no one else does either. I don't find that to be credible: who, other than Clonie, does a deal that important without a written contract?
Last edited by Self Made; 11-15-2008 at 09:19 AM.
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11-15-2008, 09:10 AM
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#67
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bobby's Room
Posts: 2,948
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedManPlus
Party Gayming is worth about $700 million...
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Higher margins (scale) and better growth should make FTP worth substantially more relative to its traffic.
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11-15-2008, 09:16 AM
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#68
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Best in the world at what I do
Posts: 22,221
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
its clownie
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11-15-2008, 09:16 AM
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#69
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journeyman
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 363
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Quote:
Originally Posted by atticus
You're joking right? If there is some truth to her allegations, this would be a pretty open and shut case. Not that difficult to establish that you didn't receive a promised 1% stake in the company and that you didn't receive a distribution if you didn't receive a 1% stake in the company and you didn't receive a distribution . I'm assuming there is a document SOMEWHERE (probably many) that documents her promised stake in the company. They'd hire an accountant to establish damages.
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I scanned the complaint very quickly, so I might have missed it, but I didn't see any reference to such a written document at least in her possession. The complaint only mentions an oral promise by Bitar to give her 1 percent, with the promised paperwork never delivered.
Does not mean she lacks a case, just that it might not be a simple matter of her whipping out the contract. Wonder what FT's internal documents show about her "ownership".
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11-15-2008, 09:18 AM
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#70
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bobby's Room
Posts: 2,948
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
A couple of additional thoughts:
- Pocket Kings is FTP's main operating unit.
- The complaint seems to imply that Kolyma is the parent company of the others.
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11-15-2008, 09:32 AM
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#71
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bobby's Room
Posts: 2,948
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Bitar was supposed to give her a contract at an upcoming WPT event, according to the complaint. Which makes her claim that no one has contracts still less credible.
Simpler explanation: maybe no contract was signed because they changed their mind about offering her equity.
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11-15-2008, 09:37 AM
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#72
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enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 73
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
[x] tilt.
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11-15-2008, 09:46 AM
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#73
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newbie
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 26
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Self Made
Pocket Kings is FTP's main operating unit.
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http://www.pocketkingscareers.ie/
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11-15-2008, 09:56 AM
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#74
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newbie
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
i didnt have time to read every reply, but heres my question...
how can these US citizens get away with "Owning" an online poker room when others are banned, esp in certain states? doyles blocks ALL IP's from michigan and i cannot access the site
they try to bust people like calvin ayre, but nothing with these guys.
why arnt they trying to be the first company in the US to regulate it with the government and start giving some of those billions to shut their mouths and leave us players alone.
ok, i need some advil now, this hangover wont go away
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11-15-2008, 10:06 AM
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#75
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 409
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Re: Clonie suing Full Tilt
I posted this in the other Full Tilt income thread, but might make more sense here.
Recently, on the one where Howard says something about "I see it in your eyes," they have Jennifer instead of Clonie, and Clonie is missing from the end also.....
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