So it's only shady if it's against you? And it's only shady if it's unpopular? If something needs investigating involving a part owner and a random guy, do you trust FTP to give the random guy equal say in the matter? If so, what do you think about multiaccounting highstakes cash?

This makes no sense. A billion dollar company will do everything it can to protect it's value. The integrity of the games being paramount to said value.

Marketing is different then keeping the games clean.

Not having employees/owners play in your games makes perfect sense to avoid both actual impropriety and the appearance of it, AFAIK it is the policy of every casino in the United States. I'm not saying I disagree with Tilt's policy, just that there certainly are legitimate arguments in opposition to it.

Like UB did? FTP do not have a good integrity track record as it is - if it were of paramount importance, why are they so bad at answering mails in security cases, why do they randomly freeze people without explanation, why etc etc etc.

People with decision making capability within the firm play on their own site's tables. If you are in security and see a case where a player accuses your boss of something, what do you do?

A site that doesn't worry about that impropriety worries me.

Clonie only dealing with oral contracts, Im shocked

I know this is the policy at some casinos, but not all.

I know for a fact that employees are able to play at several Las Vegas casinos.

I got in a minor dispute with a player in a tournament at Fitzgerald's last summer. Went back the next day to play in the same tournament and the guy was my dealer.

Likewise at Binion's. Several off duty dealers played in every tournament I entered for the 2 weeks I was there. Wearing their Binion's shirts.

point #2 is excellent I completely overlooked that.

I think I'm a little torn here on who to side with.

On the one hand you have Full Tilt's point of view. Which is Clonie Gowen is a slightly above average poker player at best and the only reason for that is the coaching she received from the other Team Full Tilt Pros (which I'm pretty sure they didn't charge her for). They would also point out her value to the marketing of Full Tilt is minimal if it exists at all and it certainly doesn't come from her poker playing abilities. I'll add my own 2 cents here and say she is slightly above attractive especially for a quote unquote spokesmodel. Basically Full Tilt got involved in a bad business arrangement and is seeking to terminate that relationship like any smart business would.

Then you have Clonie's side of the ledger. I think without a doubt she was promised some sort of stake in the company. At the beginning you could take what Full Tilt was worth and if you had $4.95 you could buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So I think its fair to say they were forced to sell her and all the players on Full Tilt's future. It is pretty clear to me it was implied that she would receive some form of payment from Full Tilt's profits at a later date. I guess we can argue what that amount was suppose to be, but its pretty obvious Clonie doesn't feel it falls any where close to in line with what she was originally told.

I'm going to say Full Tilt decided they don't have to pay her even if they did tell her something else in the beginning because they don't feel she can enforce their original agreement. Because only those two parties know what that was. It seems like a sorry move on their part. I mean no one forced them to sign her originally to Team Full Tilt that was the time for the she's not a good player opinions to be expressed. All the same Clonie probably has made a huge mistake here. I think she could have easily dropped back down to just red status like Beth Shak or something and continue to have Full Tilt pay for her tournament buyins to keep her on the hook. But maybe she's tired of the tournament circuit and feels she can win a nice sum here. She better win something though b/c she has screwed herself royally if she doesn't.

i like that the owners play on the site i hope they are superusers and steal all my money

this is going to make things pretty awkward between here and all the people she is suing

I think I'm one of the only people on this forum that sort of like Clonie. I mean, I don't KNOW her, but I have never had a problem with her based on the image she projects. I admit that she was not chosen based on her stellar poker skills (even though the others taught her well and she is better now), but she is articulate, polite, and always seemed nice. I thought she was a good spokesperson, but she never blew up into what I guess they thought she would, so now they just want to drop her. Of course I could be totally wrong though and she is just being greedy....but I find it hard to believe that they never agreed to give her SOME compensation!

At the Venetian, I play with a lot of guys who work there as well. Some are dealers in the poker room, some work the floor or deal BJ. At first this seemed odd to me, but now not so much. Never seemed to be an issue. They seem to be on their best behavior in general because they wouldnt want to loose their job over some BS in the poker room.

I lol'd

Come on people (who side with Clonie)... this has blackmail written all over it!

1. From the impassioned responses of Daniel N. and others, Clonie probably WAS NOT an original investor nor was she ever promised 1% simply for her endorsement.

Mike Matasow has indicated several times that he should have invested more in FUll Tilt when he had the chance. Rumor has it that Jenn Harmon also does not have a much of a stake. So, it is very probable that some of the original "Full Tilt Team" members do not have or have very little equity in FT.

When Full Tilt was formed there was already an extremely competitive online poker market, so it was most definitely NOT an easy investment decision and a huge risk. Full Tilt didn't take off until Party and others left the US market. Highly likely that Clonie, who probably had little money at the time, refused to invest and settled for an endorsement for buy-ins deal.

2. Clonie received tournament buy ins and paid travel expenses for her endorsement participation - easily worth hundreds of thousands over 4-ish years. So she was handsomely paid for just "walkin down the street" a few times and wearin FT patches.

3. Howard and others know what's at stake with the UIGEA and other legal issues looming overhead. These guys may be degenerate gamblers but they're not stupid enough to arbitrarily refuse to pay an investor only 1 Fk'n percent and possibly bring the whole ship down!

4. Clonie and her Scumbag lawyers (not all, just these!) know about the UGIEA and other tax/legal threats and is simply "strong arming" Lederer and Full Tilt to pay her off. Thus the reasoning behind naming all the "Team Members" in the suit.

None of the Team Member investors have written contracts. Clonie knows this so she names them in the suit. They either get deposed and shed light on their involvement with an illegal enterprise or a complicated money laundering shell game or take the 5th and Clonie's shaky case becomes stronger (no primary witnesses to testify against her).

5. The case will never go to trial. Howard, Full Tilt and other FT Team investors are invariably involved in very sketchy financial scenarios bordering on UIGEA, tax evasion, rico, or money laundering situations that they obviously don't want to "gift wrap" and deliver to the Feds.

They will pay the Blackmailer off!

So cliff notes please, just read the first page.
What happened so far?

1.) Its silly that because a "name" player says Clonie was never promised 1% that you assume she wasn't offered that. It appears Negreanu only heard one side of the story, if that.

Mike Matusow owns 0.5% of FTP. From what I understand he came on board long after Clonie (at least 1 year later).

You have no idea how much money Clonie had at that time, or what kind of offer FTP made. Just as easily they could've offered her a peice tor represent the site as a pro, much like they did with Gus Hansen.

2.) Who are we to say what "walking down the street" for an ad is worth.

3.) Who's to say this will do any damage to the site. I can't speak for everyone, but I haven't flinched at the idea of playing on FTP regardless of what happens to Clonie. My gut tells me most pros and most fish will think the same way.

4.) So why exactly are the lawyers Scumbags? All they are doing is defending someone who they feel has a valid case.

5.) Are you a legal expert? Do you really know what you are talking about?


I can't believe I wasted my time responding to this post.

It's clear that an impartial, competent, and trustworthy body is needed to clear up this mess.

Therefore, Clonie's claims should be adjudicated by Full Tilt Poker's Gaming Commission, the esteemed KGC.

Lotta 2+2ers including myself been givin quality legal opinions on ****.

FUYP

1) Bobby Baldwin plays in Bobby's Room at the Bellagio which is owned by MGM Mirage of which he is a senior executive. I know Bobby had quit playing at MGM properties for a while but he certainly was playing in the Farha/Townsend game in the summer of 2007

2) I was at Pechanga this summer playing LHE; 5 minutes after a dealer change, the previous dealer sat next to me.

so that is from one extreme (ultra high stakes) to the other (ultra low stakes)

Gowan was a charter member of Team Full Tilt, Harman, Matusow, Cunningham, Hansen and Antonius were all added subsequently

i know brick and mortars casinos in diff. u.s. states where employees, usually dealers, play in the same casino where they deal on their free time.

I would not be shocked if Jennifer Harman was added later than Clonie Gowen. When FTP first launched in beta playtesting, I believe all the red pros had their custom avatars except for Harman, who was using the cowgirl. It could have been that she rejected the first version of her avatar and they had the artist try again, but I want to say that the sense I got from chat was that she was a late addition to the team, so they were behind on getting her things like an avatar.

Given that this is NVG, I'm kind of shocked that no one has suggested that after a 250K settlement was allegedly rejected that the counter-offer should have been 250K plus a night with Patrik Antonius.

I'm also wondering if this will have friends and friends of friends and friends of friends of friends of Full Tilt members leaking juicy gossip about Clonie Gowen and which avenues they would pursue to disseminate such information. (I don't think I've heard the Gowen-Bitar link mentioned before.)

Also, Clonie Gowen should request hand histories for all the pros from the first year or so. I can't remember who said it, but I am under the impression that I have been told that "Team Full Tilt" was comprised of those pros who had an actual stake in the Tiltware software company.

you have to admit, though, that a bunch of TV pros starting a succesful poker site is like jordan selling basketball shoes and arnold palmer "signature" golf courses.